Even by your dreadful  standards that's a ridiculous thing to say I123.

I do not know if it has been mentioned but an obvious comparison of the Epsom Derby winner Winged of Eagles would be Frozen Fire. The latter showed a bit of form most notably his second in the Dante before being out with the washing at Epsom and then winning the Irish Derby. He was also overpriced but was greatly assisted by being held up off a strong pace - he went onto win nothing thereafter.

Well done to anyone who backed Winged of Eagles, he was overpriced based on his dad winning the corresponding race and his price in comparison with Duke of Venice who he wasn't far behind at Chester when he still looked green that day. That said, his form would not be good enough to win a typical Derby.

I agree with Clerkmore in that given the pace, Waldgeist would have won the Epsom Derby, he would have been my ew play in the race so I am gutted that he didn't take his chance.

Figgis - how are you, well done with the Oaks winner and obviously unlucky to get touched off in the Derby. I like Jack Hobbs for the Arc, I think he has improved this season and will continue to do so given he is a son of Halling. What are your thoughts and anyone else who wants to chip in?

I do not know if it has been mentioned but an obvious comparison of the Epsom Derby winner Winged of Eagles would be Frozen Fire. The latter showed a bit of form most notably his second in the Dante before being out with the washing at Epsom and then winning the Irish Derby. He was also overpriced but was greatly assisted by being held up off a strong pace - he went onto win nothing thereafter.

Well done to anyone who backed Winged of Eagles, he was overpriced based on his dad winning the corresponding race and his price in comparison with Duke of Venice who he wasn't far behind at Chester when he still looked green that day. That said, his form would not be good enough to win a typical Derby.

I agree with Clerkmore in that given the pace, Waldgeist would have won the Epsom Derby, he would have been my ew play in the race so I am gutted that he didn't take his chance.

Figgis - how are you, well done with the Oaks winner and obviously unlucky to get touched off in the Derby. I like Jack Hobbs for the Arc, I think he has improved this season and will continue to do so given he is a son of Halling. What are your thoughts and anyone else who wants to chip in?

Hi Swagger, I wouldn't knock Jack Hobbs's Arc chances it's just that I'm not really sure what to make of the Meydan win. Seventh Heaven won easily next time but that was a race she was fully entitled to win on last year's form so there's no proof yet that she's improved. Postponed was subsequently retired, Highland Reel obviously didn't really perform and the others weren't up to much by Gp1 standards. The time wasn't great, which was due to the pace and no reflection on the winner, but it adds another element to the doubts about the form. I'm also a bit wary in future about a horse that has had to skip nearly a whole season due to problems. They sometimes come back to run a good race or two but aren't always able to maintain that form. All sounds a bit negative I know, it's just that I'd like to see a bit more from him this year before backing him, even though I'm bound to be taking a shorter price by waiting for further evidence. I won't be having an Arc bet yet but my long term pick would be Enable, depending on how Gosden campaigns her from now.

If Wings Of Eagles wins the Irish Derby will you promise to leave the forum?

I have made no secret, and will make no apologies, for thinking that the Coolmore operation is, in my opinion, being run by and for a bunch of crooks. They run their horses in teams in order to maximise their own chances and to minimise the opposition's chances. And anyone who watched the way they manipulated the 2000 Guineas this year will know they have no scruples or morals as far as the racing public are concerned. They run their horse unfit, tactically and they are often ridden unethically and potentially illegally but the leaders of our sport and the media turn a blind eye because of the power they wield.
It may not be illegal but it is clearly immoral.

So to answer your question TMB with the Coolmore mob finishing in 1st and 2nd place I do believe Cracksman was the moral winner. And I certainly will not be taking advice from you about what I feel is best for the sport of my choice.

You should be very careful calling people crooks who might just take exception and take you to the cleaners. Obviously you didn't lay off hahaha. What a mug.

Catch Me ifyoucan
Open a 2018 Derby thread