am really surprised the st james palace was rated so high...i don't know why - i thought it was a very unsatisfactory affair, slowly run and a race that didn't suit the second at all and i would go as far to say the second didn't run well at all, never really travelling at the head of the race and did his running on the one place i didn't think you wanted to be, the rail

the proximity of the staying on outstrip and war command really held the form down for me in an very unsatisfactory race, maybe newmarket left its mark on NOT i don't know but as with a lot of races run at a slow pace it brings poorer classed horses closer to better class, anyway for me it was a very unsatisfactory, yes kingman won well sprinting clear and showing everyone he can handle fast ground but when you dissect the horses that surrounded him at the line it probably just showed his well being

i share the same annoyance as figgis in regards wfa in this race it really is a shame...i remember when canford cliffs was beaten, i swore blind he ran his race but giving that weight to frankel actually broke him as a race horse...the same thoughts applied when rip van winkle tried to give the weight to canford cliffs, he was never the same but ran one of his best life races in the sussex...at least drop it to 6lbs ffs and give it a go...it is very annoying

From what I can see so far: Gregorian in two races last season was 9 lengths behind Toronado and 9 lengths behind Olympic Glory confirming the Hannons belief there was not much between them. Gregorian beat the three 3 year olds in the July Cup including Noozoh Canaries. Kingston Hill was beaten in the Eclipse albeit a muddling affair where Somewhere was third. Tomorrow Toormore meets Gregorian in the Lennox.  Glory Awaits finished behind Toronado at Ascot.

looks like there may have been a fair amount of rain down there - with maybe more to come

Hannon before the Queen Anne

"This has always been Toronado's first target, and his preparation could not have gone better. He won the Craven first time out last year, so we don't see lack of a prep-race being a problem, and we were all very impressed when we went a mile on the grass up at Everleigh last week, looking every inch the horse we think he is"

Hannon after the Queen Anne

"I backed Toronado at 10-1 in January to win the Queen Anne, but the money is immaterial. I was just so relieved to see him win. Obviously, I was under a lot of pressure and it was a very important race, but then Toronado is a very, very good colt.

Personally I'd be very surprised if Toronado wasn't anything but spot on for that race.

borderline heresy but the Hannon stable form is just a little bit shy of the normal levels...only a little bit admittedly.

I'm not at all sure why Outstrip should be twice the price of War Command on here either.

Not really a race I want to get involved in but if you twisted my arm I might risk a few shekels on Outstrip to follow Kingman home, probably trying to be too creative though...

or you will

The race is very much ground dependent,can't believe the state of the ground at Windsor tonight,this country is a joke ,those fast ground sorts may have to find races on the All weather if this carries on,not sure of the state of ground at Goodwood,but guess they will saturate it ,like every other track in the country.

Nothing I've seen from Toronado puts hims in the same league as Kingman - who is a good thing IMO.

You have to remember planning for the Queen Anne isn't the same as the Sussex. The QA is a restricted race and Toronado was always likely to be a warm favourite. In fact his run looked like he needed it a bit. In fact he is reported to have blown up.
I personally think this bunch of 3 year olds look better than last seasons but as yet we have no solid evidence. A fascinating tactical challenge I feel.

When you consider Frankel was 8/13 and Kingman is 1/2 and considering Toronado was 126 and Canford Cliffs 127 looks like comparisons between Frankel and Kingman are being made. The same thing happened between Telescope and Harbinger I reckon.
Would I back Toronado? No. Cannot see any reliable scenario that would work for me.

I agree but it is going to happen.

After last years Sussex Stakes: Hannon said: "Revenge is sweet, I suppose, but they are two good horses. Richard Hughes said the other morning in work that he was the best he has ever ridden. You know, with Canford Cliffs and everything, we have had some good horses, but he is very good."

Harry, no, it wasn't actually for any one specifically, just that I've seen a few positives put forward for him but hadn't seen many say they were backing him.

Harry, I agree the SJP wasn't entirely satisfactory because of how it was run early on but sometimes a horse wins with such authority that you have to conclude it would've won on the day whatever the tactics in the race. I still need to see a lot more from Kingman to rate him as really exceptional. I thought the Greenham showed he was going to at least go close in the Guineas but still didn't think he was worth backing at his short price. I thought he was vulnerable to a good one but I never would've thought NOT would be the one to beat him. It was just one of those days and on another day Kingman could've beaten him, as he did in the SJP. I still don't think he's shown anything since to suggest he would've done anything more than beat the Guineas field narrowly. Maybe he will in time but for me he's just a good miler, great to watch, but not a great miler yet. However, I still believe even his Guineas second is more than good enough to beat Toronado in receipt of 8lbs.

don't disagree as i put at the top of the page just that i didn't really think NOT was at the races that day and was just looked after by hughes and actually i just didn't get it if i'm honest, maybe it was just to look after the horse but anyway i was being more critical of the race itself, rather than kingman...you have to like kingman he just oozes class, it was just that the st james palace was just very unsatisfactory in my book

The QA form  would not be good enough to beat Kingman , Toronado needs to come on a  by at least a length just to get into a fight  with that Kingman  . I will be having a small bet on Toronado because,  if his stride is used properly  in the first six furlongs , he may well  take the sting out of the  famed Kingman burst   , the fav may still  win by a street what ever way the race is run and stamp himself as a Turf legend .

Goodwood course management are taking no chances on the ground firming up. Expect further selective watering. They realise the importance of having Kingman line up for the Dual of the Downs.

Will Darwin be the pacemaker?

I couldn't back Toormore myself. Earlier this year I thought he was going to go close in the Guineas but looking back I see where I overrated him. Even so, his Craven win would make him very hard to beat here on these terms but I have both runs since his Craven win as declining efforts. The talk from the Hannon yard sounds more like hope than anything and, while his best form makes his odds today attractive, as a punter you're also just hoping he can show his best again. He could be a horse on the downturn, ideally I'd like to oppose him but with the non runners it doesn't leave much running for a layer, with Amarillo his best opponent, imo, so just a race to watch.

Yet again after the first race at a big meeting the COC has to change the going description. Comical. It's fast ground alright and you have to wonder how much juice he'll slap on tonight.

I thought Anjaal would give him a right race today on form now he is right and he did

I saw no mention at all of Anjaal on your post regarding this race?