I think you should look at the ratings guys. With the best will in the world your opinion my not be worth a hill of beans. And neither, for that matter, could mine. But you see I am not saying Farhh would hammer Camelot, you are. And that is what I needed to hear. I would understand it if I were but I am not, you are. Of course it would have been nice if come up with form that shows Farhh would hammer Camelot not only because I would like to see it but it would support your opinion. But hey ho. 

Of course the problem is you also think AOB is a fool Sin so actually I am quite happy being in that club. And at least it makes me smile. And added to that John Gosden apparently doesn't know what he is talking about. So work it out guys. 

And poor AT. I never brought up Frankel, or Camelot so read the posts. And don't forget we are supposed to be assessing the Juddmonte.

So let me give you a little insight as to where we are.

If Australia is the best horse AOB has trained that means he is better than St Nicholas Abbey in AOB's eyes at least. Are you still with me?

St Nicholas Abbey finished alongside Farhh in the 2012 Juddmonte. So it is good that you rate Farhh so highly. I needed to get you to say that yourselves which you did, loudly. It doesn't matter who won that race by miles. Are you still with me?

So the million dollar question is: Was the opposition to St Nicholas Abbey in the 2012 Juddmonte stronger or weaker than the likely opposition to Australia?

Come on guys, I'm sure you can work the rest out for yourselves. Well I'm pretty sure.

When I put down what I think I am preaching.

When I get you to tell me what to put down I singularly fail to understand.

Just read the posts guys don't just jump in and make silly statements. Read who brings up Frankel or Camelot or whatever. And try not to forget we all have different opinions. Of you may be right all of the time but I doubt it so you must respect the fact that others have different views. It comes with maturity.

What I have written above is based on YOUR opinion.

Where have I said AOB is a fool? Like I said, you have no idea about the breeding side of the game and you swallow his every word.

As for John Gosden, I have successfully second guessed him all season long. When fools like you were saying Kingman needed cut in the ground because of his supposed ''dodgy pins'', and that he was a sprinter/non-stayer, people like me were hammering him for the SJP at odds-against (all posted on here before the race) whilst you layed him, and that Taghrooda would run in the King George which I backed at 15/2 (posted on here). Money where my mouth is and proven correct. Never did I say he did not know what he is doing, but the complete opposite. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Only someone as naive as you cannot see it. If John Gosden says one thing.. ask yourself if he is really thinking something else. It will save you money. Next up, lets see where Eagle Top runs next

Now, please find the post where I said AOB was a fool and JG doesn't know what he is doing.. thank you.

I would be really interested in a form line that puts Farhh in front of Camelot Wickedt

can you tell me a horse that Camelot has beat that franked the form brig?

I pray for your sake Brig that you are joking there.

Seek help.

brig why is it do you think your letters to various authorities and organisations get thrown in the bin?

Brig you're beyond help, so anything I say is pointless as you think your reading of races is correct.

I shouldn't complain too much though as if we didn't have punters like you, we wouldn't make a profit!

Wickedt can you not fooking read???? It's form the form book and from AOB. I never wrote the form book and I never made the statements. You cannot be that naive, can you? And you wonder why the organisations get away with so much?

AT I have no idea. I am quite happy to think they are equal. The same way I am quite happy to think St Nic and Farhh are equal. The same way I think St Nic and CDA are equal. The same way I think Ruler of the World and St Nic there is not much between them.

Would I have a bet based upon that form line alone? No I wouldn't. Down the field form can be unreliable but I have not listed that form line on its own. It is backed up by AOB's comments. Not mine.

someone*

AT I have no idea. I am quite happy to think they are equal.

No brig you used the 2012 Arc form to demonstrate what you believed to be the merits of the 2. Take away that race and your argument falls apart.

So do you think they ran to true form in the 2012 Arc? Unless you do everything you've posted above is a nonsense.

St Nic was an unlucky 2nd and Camelot beat him when they met in the Arc in his next race. So it is quite reasonable to think he would have beaten St Nic, Farhh and Twice Over

Camelot was 2/1f and St Nic was 14/1 for the Arc and it was the only time they met. So it is not inconceivable that Camelot would have won the Juddmonte. is what I wrote.

AT I used the terms 'quite reasonable to think' and 'not inconceivable'. Are you telling me that if St Nic had beaten Camelot you would not be using that to support your position? Are you?

I have no idea who is the best of the two. St Nic was my favourite of the two but with the Arc result and AOB's comments and the ratings  I have to accept there is probably not much between them. It may be clueless thinking that but so what. None are racing now so will not be involved in my betting. 

AT I think you will find Camelot never regained his form after his life threatening colic operation. And I think Mukhadram hated the ground at Ascot. It's good to see someone else who is clueless enough to use the form book. Albeit badly.

No we are getting back on track now HC. Thanks to AT.

You see I think St Nic is equal to Farhh. Farhh easily beat Mukhadram in the Champion Stakes. And according to AOB Australia is better than St Nic. So with Mukhadram being the only real danger to Australia in the Juddmonte surely it is only a matter of how far.

Why do you have to spoil it AT?
The form line I submitted was where in the 2000 Gns Hermeval and Camelot ran to their form. In the SJP where Hermeval and Gabrial ran to their form and in the Sussex Stakes where Farhh and Gabrial ran to their form. You come up with a race where Mukhadram NEVER ran to his form. And I am the clown. Wake up ffs.

If my life depended on it I would have to say yes because that is all the evidence we have. Would I bet my hard earned on it? No.

Do you think Mukhadram ran to form in the Champion Stakes?

then you would know that those conditions did not suit either Camelot or St Nic, and therefore it's a completely pointless form line to bring up. It means nothing.

Wickedt as a stand alone piece of form you are right. I have already said that. But when you add the betting and AOB's comments to the race result I don't think it is unreasonable to think Camelot is at least as good as St Nic.
You see Wickedt the last comment is your opinion. I won't do what you do and insult you for having your opinion. I won't call you clueless or a clown who needs praying for simply because you put down your opinion. This is a forum and everyone's opinion is welcome. The fact that I prefer to listen to AOB in this instance is because I know AOB's record and I don't know yours.

The betting means nothing in this debate.  Oh dear.
AOB's comments are also as useless.        Oh dear.

So why did he not hype St Nicholas Abbey? If, as you say, he hypes all of his horses and his form was so much better, according to you, then why not say St Nic is at least as good as Camelot surely that would give him two bites of the cherry? But then perhaps he couldn't say that because he didn't believe St Nic was as good as Camelot.

My way of thinking is I don't know and I'm not prepared to even think about knocking a horse a liked just to prove something completely pointless. So I am prepared to say they are about equal.