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Juddmonte International York

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By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 16:53
Grendel, yes completely agree they are classic signs for me too, apart from when they run no race at all of course.
By:
mac99
When: 21 Aug 14 16:55
held up in rear, niggled along to close over 3f out, went 2nd over 1f out, ridden to challenge inside final furlong, led final 100 yards, stayed on well

held up towards rear, closed 8f out, challenged going well 3f out, shaken up to lead over 2f out, ridden over 1f out, headed final 100 yards, held close home


These are  the race comments from ATR , it is my firm belief that had Taghrooda been  pushed firmly into the lead  a little earlier she  would have held on , i believe the first furlong was  more than thirteen seconds , the reason Taghrooda was going so well three out was the pace was very strong.
By:
mac99
When: 21 Aug 14 16:56
*not very strong
By:
brigust1
When: 21 Aug 14 16:58
Wouldn't the slower final furlong be normal in most races? And the times just show that Tapestry was faster in all of the final four furlongs. Given they are both classic fillies with one favourite for the 1000 Gns and the other favourite for the Oaks suggests there is the possibility the former is faster without necessarily being the stronger stayer and the track helped in that regard imo.
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:02
Mac, but she ran her quickest furlong from the 5f to the 4f pole, the quickest furlong by any in the race, she became progressively slower afterwards.
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:02
It was a weak KG
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:04
The final furlong being slower is of no relevance. That fastest furlong certainly wouldn't be between the 5f and 4f pole in a sprint finish.
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:05
*The fastest furlong
By:
grendel
When: 21 Aug 14 17:05
disagree MJ, was run in one of the fastest ratings I've given any race in recent years ... dunno how figgis rated it
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:06
MJ, so where does that leave your Australia rating?
By:
mac99
When: 21 Aug 14 17:06
fig, I think  the reason  she did not run her fastest furlong  from the fourth furlong to the third furlong was because the rider  decided he would coast  in that furlong, this was a mistake imo .
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:12
Grendel, I don't think the 4yos were anything special but that would be the same for any KG where they were beaten 3 lengths. After the race I rated Taghrooda as a well above average 3yo filly and one certainly worthy of winning a KG. I have no doubt that she ran below that level today, and while Tapestry put up a reasonable performance to beat her I don't have her in quite the same class. People expect them to run to the pound too often then look for reasons to downgrade the previous form when they don't, imo.
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:13
Mac, but if she was capable of running quicker wouldn't she have still had more in reserve when he did ask her? The evidence doesn't suggest she did.
By:
mac99
When: 21 Aug 14 17:16
Her Forte is staying power that is why she did not run in the 1000 , she needed to have that attribute mined today and it was not mined to a suitable degree imo
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:17
Figgis

we make ratings through a system,and  no harm in keeping the original ratings but adjusting for opinion or evidence?(they most definitely aint gospel)+( always changing) for better or worse.
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:19
Sea The Moon still the best visual performance i have witnessed this year.
By:
brigust1
When: 21 Aug 14 17:19
It's great that we all have the same or different opinions it would be a boring old world if we didn't.
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:20
"oh yes"Confused
By:
grendel
When: 21 Aug 14 17:21
figgis, how did you rate Australia's performance yesterday? ... as a going adjusted speed rating I made it quite a bit below par
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:24
grendal

Fillies seem to avoid the KG,when they turn up you can be sure it is because they believe the race weak?(aftertiming now)Wink
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:24
When horses run below form but still manage to win by scraping home or not winning quite as impressively as expected (and it's happened to even the very best on occasions), then it's generally accepted that the horse ran below par for whatever reason, but when one is beaten while running below form there is much more of a tendency to want to downgrade earlier form, in my view.
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:25
I got a rough 134 TF got 132,but do we believe our ratings?
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:27
Figgis 

We can rate Frankel 147 but do we really believe he could give 5 lb + to Sea the Stars over 10f?
By:
grendel
When: 21 Aug 14 17:29
I do
By:
grendel
When: 21 Aug 14 17:31
can't possibly be that high as a speed rating MJ, Voltigeur was lengths faster
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:31
"Oh you are awful"
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:32
not a speed figure grendal.I leave that to the experts.
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:34
Grendel, yes I have it as a below par figure. Before the race I estimated what I thought Australia was likely to achieve over 10f and I have it a few pounds short of that. I don't think the final time can be excused too much because of the early pace but I think it's likely it did hinder it by a few pounds. I would expect Australia to be able to do a bit better but I still don't have him as a particularly special 3yo. What was disappointing about yesterday's race was the poor running of the older horses. Even allowing that they're also nothing special they didn't run to their best. Although I did say that Telescope looked to have had a hard race in the KG and Mukhadram was entitled to throw in a poor one after his exertions. Australia did me a favour in the Derby, I have nothing against him, or any horse for that matter, but I'm itching to take him on now purely for betting reasons as I don't think his form matches his reputation, unfortunately I've seen nothing worth opposing him with.
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:34
Grendal

just reflecting on today's lowther,the time guys will be wetting their pants,just because of the firm ground?(well not soft or over watered),which in the last two years is all we have.
By:
grendel
When: 21 Aug 14 17:36
track records mean nothing, all they tell you is that the going is at its fastest ... or near it
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:38
figgis

Mukhadram is inconsistent and looks better going right handed,Telescope never been that great to my eyes(need i say more)
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:39
Oh and The great gatsby as improved more than Australia from the guineas?
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:40
AOB can send it to the meat market nowLaughWink
By:
grendel
When: 21 Aug 14 17:43
Figgis, the way I see the Juddmonte was that Heffernan didn't want to set off at a fast pace from the start and him and Hanagan were looking at each other for the other to take the lead ... Australia's main rivals would be inconvenienced by a slow early pace which is what it was for the first couple of furlongs, then Heffernan went on and the race became more of a mile / 9f race which meant that the Mukhadram and Telescope would use up much of their limited speed early to keep up with the faster pace and they were spent by the two pole where Australia came through without having to be asked to quicken and the other hold up horse The Grey Gatsby followed him through.
By:
Figgis
When: 21 Aug 14 17:45
MJ, but if that's the case then how do you arrive at 134 for Australia? He only beat Telescope by just over a length more than Taghrooda did, while being harder ridden, and arguably Telescope is more of a 12f horse. Surely if Australia is a 134 horse then Taghrooda couldn't be far behind and a worthy KG winner?
By:
brigust1
When: 21 Aug 14 17:46
Winning trainer Aidan O'Brien, back at the track after the success of Australia in the Juddmonte International 24 hours earlier, said: "Things didn't go her way in the 1000 Guineas but ever since then she's stepped up and stepped up as the season has gone on.

"She was unlucky in the Irish Oaks. If you watch the replay of the race, you'll know what I mean. Look where the saddle ended up and she had to race like that for the whole of the race. I don't know how the saddle stayed on.

"Ryan has given her a peach today. She had Group One class over seven furlongs as a two-year-old, but she's a big filly and she's really been coming forwards with every run this season. She stays a mile and a half but I think she probably wants fast ground and we were lucky that the rain didn't come any more than it did.

"We'll look at France, we'll look at America, but fast ground is going to be important for her. The world is open to her now."

Moore added: "She looked one of the best two-year-olds last year and it has just taken a while for her to come to hand, but she ran a very good race the last day and has improved again today.

"We had nothing to lose. So it (tracking Taghrooda) seemed the best play we had.

"She had to battle. The other filly had plenty of time to come back if she was good enough. They are two very good fillies - they were seven lengths clear and I think that says it all really."

John Gosden said of Taghrooda: "No excuses, she's just been outstayed on the Knavesmire, which has happened to horses before.

"She was nice and relaxed through the race, he (Hanagan) gave her a lovely ride and it was a great race.

"The winner is just one of those fillies that has come to herself at this time of year. There was a lot of confidence behind her in the Irish Oaks and she had a problem with her tack, I believe.

"They've beaten the rest an awful long way, and she has just been outstayed.

"She's been in great form at home and barely had a race in the King George so there'll be no change to the plan. It will still be the Arc.

"They've always liked the winner, she has always been towards the top of their pecking order."
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 17:58
It seems AOB been telling the truth all season(just after events mind),the bigger picture does appear that the AOB camp in much better form now than earlier,and perhaps the Machine that has been absolutely outstanding this year of Gosdens
in need of a break?
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 18:00
figgis 

of course she was a worthy KG winner,but it was a weak race.
By:
metro john
When: 21 Aug 14 18:19
I have composed a list of questions for the racing press to ask AOB before the race.


Aiden,does your stable have the cough?
Aiden, have you ruined this filly on the gallops
Aiden do you ever give the boys any advice?
By:
deepingfox
When: 21 Aug 14 22:39
Still prefer the claims of AL NAAMAH for the 1000 Guineas, and looking forward to seeing her in the Fillies Mile.
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