more than a dozen,with another dozen behind waiting to break rank

what's that one of stoutes called?

Uk trainers should be able to stick it too the yanks at anything above the mile thisyear. next years 3ylds will not find it easy,so i hop mr bell looking after that nicely bred 2yrld

brig too busy counting his ante post vouchers

Thanks All, hi Metro. No congrats required because everyone on here thought he would win but were not liking his price. And I'm following him because of AOB.
Off out for a meal tonight and I'm not paying so goodnight all.

1 - AUSTRALIA(134P)
2 - THE GREY GATSBY(130) 2L 
3 - TELESCOPE(126) 2¼
4 - MUKHADRAM(120) 3¼
5 - AROD(118) 1¼ 
6 - KINGFISHER(112)2¾

video 

  http://youtu.be/FqswOY_4R6s

Actually I agree with Brigust, Australia may be capable of better but I think it was just average form compared to past runnings of the event.

I thought the Arc looked the obvious target but looking at it there they have nothing for the Classic.  They love that race. I think Coolmore value a BC Classic higher than an Arc, not saying I do, but maybe a Classic on Derby winner's CV is more prestigious than an Arc.

Also they have a few outside chances of an Arc with the likes of Ruler of the World, Leading Light, Chicquita and Geoffrey Chaucer although I wouldn't be rushing to back any of those myself.

What more does Geoffrey Chaucer have to do to convince people he is very very ordinary?

The worst is when they boast about a horse's prowess over a distance it's never won a race at - let alone a big race.

Brigust

I must agree,regardless of what ratings we may come up with,we must question them,I believe we underrate 12f horses and or overrate at shorter distances,to have yesterdays performance the same or just 2 lbs short of last years Arc screams wrong at me,I believe a merit performance for a champion 12f horse is now out of reach,and all handicappers should start to question their own lbs per length measurements at different distances.

The miler and 10f form   will always look superior,and thus the greatest race in Europe(ARC) with the competitive essence of hopefully having Derby winners from all over Europe and the world losing gloss,
this is the way it seems to be going.

Firstly I'm willing to see him win a better race by further but that is unlikely to happen. He is odds on for the Irish Champion and will the same for the Champion Stakes. If he runs in the QE11 and bolts up then I think he has earned a good rating.
But you analysis of the rating system doesn't stack up. Of the top dozen or so top rated by Clownform we have Sea Bird, Brigadier Gerard, Ribot, Mill Reef, Dancing Brave, Harbinger, Sea the Stars, Shergar, Vaguely Noble, Generous, Reference Point and Alleged and all won at 12 furlongs. And all were not necessarily milers.

All we need to do is get the ratings 'experts' to avoid the tidal wave of hype and rate according to the facts not the hype. They interviewed Frankie Dettori yesterday after the races and he referred to Mukhadrm and Telescope as great horses. No they aren't ffs. They are very good horses and Australia is a very good horse who was helped by the wfa allowance. Why do you think they are going to retire him at the end of the season.   
I know I get knocked for so called 'knocking' horses but I want to see them do it on the track not in peoples minds.

brigust

A similar problem with weight for age,ignoring personnel betting bias,Admiral rous enjoyed his edge,I estimate a drop of 3-4 lbs would make it more interesting,but would rather keep the edge!

10f is now the distance at which the ratings may be achieved,ground dependent for the stayers mind?,perhaps this should be the distance to replace the ARC??????, or will the Juddmonte replace the ARC??????

It's completely the opposite for me. Middle distance horses are generously rated and always have been due to the ratings system. Sprinters get the worst deal of all. It's extremely difficult for a sprinter to get anywhere near a 140 rating, in fact I'd say it's virtually impossible. Sprinting form is far more compressed from top to bottom and the pounds scale underestimates pounds per length over those trips. Sprinters are racing hard in pretty much every race they contest so it's more difficult to carry peak form for more than a couple of races, whereas a lot of middle distance races are less than truly run, which makes it easier to rack up a sequence. A lot of middle distance races just fall apart completely when a few of the runners have been on the go, the race is run at a fast early pace, sometimes on soft ground, and the winner has been given a patient ride leading to exaggerated winning distances and inflated ratings. Of course when they're packed off to stud at the end of their 3yo careers it's difficult to prove that they were overrated, but the record of the few that are kept in training suggests that more often that not they were overrated, Treve being a recent example, imo. As I said, though, it's always been the case.

To attract breeders to keep 3ylds in training at 4 years, then the WFA must drop 4 lbs(simples)

I don't rate on the 140 scale. It was a good performance but she received 8lbs on the wfa scale, an allowance given for immaturity, therefore 8lbs was added to her rating on the assumption that she would improve by 8lbs as a 4yo.

I find it difficult to say early retiring 3 year olds are over rated as a group as opposed to them simply benefiting from the wfa allowance at three and then when kept in training have to deal with the wfa from the opposition. The most important thing is to get the rating correct in the first place. Some of the connections of early retiring three year olds, like Pour Moi, simply realise that is their pinnacle and the only way is down. I cannot blame them for that. 
Treve is a classic example. She beat Wild Cocoa in the Vermeille then won a slowly run Arc against a slightly above average opposition. Just saying five length Arc winner should not be enough. Thankfully she will ply her trade this year so we can judge a bit more. But, and it is a big but, potentially the best 3 year old is unlikely to take her on this time. The ratings experts must remove themselves from the hype and rate accurately. 
I don't do ratings Road but 128-130 would be too much for me. I cannot see how you can rate a horse against another horses that never ran to form. In my opinion Intello and Penglai Pavillion ran close to form and the race was run to suit their style of racing. She beat them five and a quarter an seven and a quarter lengths so rate her through them and not through the second who never ran to form. 

But as you can see I don't do ratings.

I think that evolution through selective breeding has meant that early maturing horses who become top 3 year olds of their generation and then packed off to stud pass on early maturing traits so that we end up with our top horses being predominantly early maturing types that wouldn't generally be any better at four than they would be at three and those that stay in training have to be that much better than the 3 yo's when racing them in order to overcome giving the wfa away