I stated well before the race that Geffrey Chaucer was a no for me. When commenting on the race afterwards I felt smug and stated that I had backed Ebadoran.

Now I`m not being honest, please enlighten me again.

Thankyou Sandown.

Fig you brought up My Swallow ffs.

Yes, I brought up My Swallow to illustrate the utter crassness of listing which beaten horses won what events afterwards as some kind of definitive proof of a race's quality. It did the job.

i've backed Orchestra at 20/1, which i think is over priced as i think he has good credentials, and my opinion is that he's over priced.

Completely agree with that, I might change my opinion after the Dante but at this stage I'd give him as good a chance as True Story.

Sin how did you know that I didn't think I had told anyone. I had 5/2 with our Irish friends and again more recently 7/4. Are you reading my accounts?

Are you having a bad day Fig? Getting a lot wrong recently and decidedly bitchy with it. Why don't you stick to the current state of affairs? Just when a decent debate gets going the tone becomes off. Why not just disagree about the facts eh? It's only when people feel they are losing the argument that they revert to attacking the poster and not the issue.
You may think it was one of the better Guineas performances in recent years and you may be right. I think Australia's Guineas may prove better no after timing there.

attacking the poster

Attacking? Jeez you must've led a sheltered life, brig.

Why not just disagree about the facts eh?

The facts are that Australia was beaten fair and square by two better milers on the day. The facts are that O'Brien has never bothered giving a prep to his strongly fancied Guineas winners and it's been no barrier to success. Anything else is just damage limitation PR spiel for the benefit of the stallion fees, or bottom of the barrel excuse making by wishful triple crown backers

Re True Story I haven`t backed him yet and will wait to see how his next run goes before deciding whether to have a saver on him.

If anything else wins then so be it.

A small book compared to the overbroke 2000 Guineas book

No I think it's called respect Fig, something you are born with I guess.

I also think the AOB point is nonsense because you cannot blanket every situation together. That is something you should be well aware of.
Some horses like Rip Van Winkle and Mastercraftsmen, Roderic O'Connor and Power were not, in my opinion, fully ready on the day.Soe by not much and some by quite a lot. Then of course there is the circumstance prevailing on the day. As you said STS hadn't a prep run so the need for RVP etc to have one was not so marked while in this years Guineas the main protagonists did have a prep run and I am certain that made a significant difference considering how close they finished. Plus, whether you believe AOB's explanation or not, there may have been other mitigating circumstances but the fact that he stated he would have preferred a prep run also adds to that point. 
I also think that a Australia had a prep run and had he won as a result, not at all inconceivable, the press would be looking at things in a completely different light today and he would be significantly odds on for the Derby.

What Hannon said on Guineas day before the race. 'Night of Thunder should not be underestimated. He has gears. He was well beaten by Kingman in the Greenham but is better than that. The favourite had the run of the race there and our fellow will improve for the extra furlong, and we know Keiron Fallon's style will suit him.' 
So maybe I am not alone and maybe, just maybe, it shows how much difference a prep race can make.

*A huge difference to Hannon's NoT.

What's the news with True Story, Feltfair?

They indicate that they don`t want to run him on bad ground at York.

Has been entered in a race at Newmarket on Saturday, Fairway Stakes.

I don`t think it`s definitive but likely I think.Still very short for Dante on here but plenty of margin if he does drop out.

Ta, Geoff, Feltfair.

I would think he is saying exactly that he thinks Australia is better than both George and Henry. Henry was the equal of Raven's Pass and in time JG may say he thinks Kingman is better similarly Henry was rated 121 after the Guineas the same as STS. George was rated 124 after the Guineas. They both on first time up but this was their main target unlike Australia.

So many contradictions in your arguments Brig there really are.


Re the Derby and backing Aus after the Guineas ... well, given you have complete faith in the horse, fair enough, I would have thought that after his Guineas run it might have been mentioned somewhere on the thread that you was really taken with his effort and have backed accordingly? Did that get posted and I missed it? Otherwise I just find it fascinating it gets mentioned now after another gushing interview from the trainer when he makes all kinds of excuses about needing a prep and having a cough!

Sin let me take you through it slowly. The 2000 Guineas is not necessarily the race I bet in significantly. However given what AOB said about the horse I thought that if he himself believed what he was saying that he would run him in the Guineas.
Are you still with me?
It was only after constant disagreement with almost all of the other posters I actually had an ante post bet on the Guinea, Derby and Arc.
Are you still with me?
As we got nearer the time and Australia's price shortened markedly I laid off.   
Unfortunately I had prior commitments so could not be around for the 2000 Gns so only ante post as available so I left a bet with a friend to put on in my absence.
Still there?
Now I do bet in the Derby so the smaller bet I had on him just prior to the Guineas I topped up on my return.

It's not rocket science or news to anyone on this thread that AOB's comments and actions with regard to Australia make me believe this is just not his average enthusiasm. You call it other names I know but I think he is just enthusiastic about his horse.Sometime a bit too enthusiastic I agree. And to date I think the Australia view is gathering pace and it could end up anywhere. 


O'Brien's son Joseph, who rode Camelot to Derby glory in 2012, will partner Australia at Epsom and gave his own tribute to the colt.

"Australia has pace but is also well-balanced and has a good temperament - you really cannot fault him," he said.

"I wouldn't want to swap him for anything else at all either in the Derby or back over mile. I like him and always have done.

"I really believe in the horse. To be successful, you have to believe in your own horse."

I have no intention of listing my bets on this forum thank you Sin. I have been around far too long to worry about that. In fact if you don't believe me I think, sadly, it says more about you than it does about me.

And I don't play Poker. Never have.

Brig, do you think if Aidan thinks so highly of Australia, will he bother running the likes of Geoffrey Chaucer or Orchestra?