owners of Nathaniel will be more interested in his stud value than having a crack at the Arc,imo. Champion Stakes back at Ascot has to be a big player imo.

stomach watcher, I agree that he could go for both but I think this will only happen if they target the Arc. Gosden tends to be a target man and if that is the Champion then they will by-pass the Arc.

Another reason he may miss the Arc will be because of the owners having plenty of other options for the race such as Meandre who Fabre was quite bullish about.

I don't necessarily buy into the stud value issue as the owners aren't a commercial breeding operation like Coolmore. If Frankel doesn't run in the Champion then I don't see that adding as much to his value as winning the Arc - he has his 10F Group 1 in the bag. There would indeed be a certain romance about the two horses running in their last race as well as their first, quite remarkable that two brilliant horses ran in the same maiden.

Much to ponder over the coming weeks and we'll just have to see what happens and at least I am in a position to trade my Arc position with Nathaniel if that is what the vibes suggest.

Sorry Mr M, if they state Frankel goes for the Champion they will not side step any horse - as much as I love Nathaniel, Frankel will swamp him

ILWAB,

I wouldn't say St Nic is necessarily better on an undulating track. He looked positively unbalanced against Midday and took an age to get past her, he seems to have learned a lot since then and was far better around Epsom this year. A year ago I would have argued an undulating track would be against him but now I think undulating and flat tracks come the same to him.