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**************** L'Arc de Triomphe 2012 ****************
**************** L'Arc de Triomphe 2012 ****************
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Anyone want to bet Orfevre for the Champion? I'll negotiate a price with you and go and put it up now.
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the wy he travelled up the straight to the front was awesome.
just like dancing brave except he got there way too soon. soumi sitting there twiddling his thumbs at the back to passing the entire field in a matter of stides.....amazing! |
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It was a monster performance from Orfevre, he had to travel the furthest out of any horse in the race as well. The winner took the shortest route and this helped her get back at him near the finish IMO.
He is one of the best I've seen, for Soumy to say he is better than Zarkava is the highest praise. She was a wonder filly, scintillating turn of foot on all types of ground, just like the monster!!! I still can't believe he got beat. |
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Performances on such going can be deceptive - and he did get beat. I doubt Soumillon would be saying things like that if he hadn't been sacked by the Aga Khan.
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dont think the performance can be crabbed esp as hes better on good ground!
 as mentioned he was wide all the way around and glided thru the ground passing the field effortlessly. id be interested to see how he'd do in the champion. cant see him beating the great frankel but the race would be better for him being in it. |
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dont think the performance can be crabbed esp as hes better on good ground!
as mentioned he was wide all the way around and glided thru the ground passing the field effortlessly. id be interested to see how he'd do in the champion. cant see him beating the great frankel but the race would be better for him being in it. |
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The very best horses can quicken on any type of ground and that's why the ground conditions never worried me. There was nothing deceptive about his performance, he got beat by the draw and a slight jockey error IMO.
I would be very surprised if he turns up for the Champion Stakes after such a tough energy sapping race. Maybe Frankel should rock up at the Japan Cup instead.  |
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Now that is a good call Mr D
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if he didnt drift he'd have won.
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I know there is no chance of it happening but it would be the ultimate test for Frankel and a great spectacle with all those wonderful Japanese racing fans.
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Having watched the race many times over, and digested the result, I have to give a bit more credit to a really gutsy filly in Solemia who (despite everyone dismissing her win due to the ground) has beaten the rest pointless!
Nothing in the race was finishing to any effect and even when Orfevre was supposedly weakening, the rest of the field were making no ground on him and he maintained the same margin over them after he kicked clear - she has to be applauded for that effort. You just can't help but be really taken by the **** star as he was well in rear (nothing else amongst them got in the slightest blow) travelled longer than the rest, 'won' the race in super-smooth fashion before being reeled back by an apparent rag with no right on any form to win! I'd still be very confident who the best horse is from that race but it maybe unwise to deem this result as a fluke - Solemia was very good on the day. I really don't think Soumillon deserves any unfair flak for this, as it's easy with hindsight and it should be remembered that he hit the front inside the 300 marker, not 3f out! I'm no jockey apologist but there does seem to be a lot of pocket-talking when a 'hot-pot' is expected to win and things don't pan out as they're supposed to - Camelot & Sea Moon in the last two renewals of the St.Leger were for me, both beaten by better horses on the day, and their pilots were unfairly slated! I'm not for one minute suggesting that Masked Marvel is a better colt than Sea Moon but I have no doubt who was better equipped for the particular demands of that race last year, much in the same way with Encke last month. Finally, has anyone heard news as to whether Orfevre will be kept in training? I really want to see more of this colt and it'd be fully deserved if the Jáps could finally bag an Arc - they certainly deserve one as that's now four very narrow defeats in just over a decade; El Condor Pasa (reeled in very late and beaten narrowly by one of the best colts I've seen over the last 30+ years in Montjeu...the pair well clear) Deep Impact (plenty of relatively lame excuses but thought to be a certainty!) Nakayama Festa (nailed late by a very decent Derby winner in Workforce...the pair well clear) Orfevre (probably the unluckiest of them all to encounter a filly on PCP for the day, like Buster Douglas against Mike Tyson. Again...the pair well clear) They can't be begrudged a victory and I hope it's Orfevre we see there next year on better ground - I think he's that good, I'd make him at most an 11/4 shot with a run, one year in advance! |
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*** = JÁP
 Fcukin' pathetic innit?  |
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PS - imagine for one moment if the winner was withdrawn...nobody would have batted an eyelid and we'd be looking at a six length Arc demolition!
It's a funny old game  |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AXgGuInYOY&sns=tw
LOOOOOOOOL |
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There were slight doubt over Orfevre's temperament and stamina over a testing 12 furlongs before the race, and in at least one of those areas, and probably both, they proved well-founded. It's all there in the formbook.
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Sankara - then the rest of the field has massive stamina doubts???
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Stamina did not get Orfevre beaten. Not in the slightest was it stamina. Even in the ground. The draw,ground, and quickening before 3furlongs home cause him to hand in the final 50yrds. He's a very good horse.
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*hang
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Shouldn't underestimate the physical demands on a horse to make the saw of race winning sweeping move that Orfevre made in the home straight especially on that ground. He basicallly picked up and accelerated past the majority of the field at a time when the pace was already lifting significantly. It was an incredible manoeuvre. We've seen him do this Japan but that was over longer trips, on faster ground and against below Arc standard competition. That effort on Sunday was stunning and not surprising he didn't have the legs to fend off a re rallying Solemia.
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wasnt stamina, the horse sometimes idles, hes a bit crazy ..thats all.
soumillion has thrown teh kitchen sink at him ..and in my opinion his right front leg was either hurting, or he shucked the toys out the pram. Its obvious ...as per my previous post. |
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chucked ..rather than shucked
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Banging my drum in the hopes that someone who can do something about, will do,
he had the horse about 12 lengths off the lead until the turn for home, IF he had the horse just four lengths nearer the lead and then gone for home, does ANYONE believe that he would have been beaten? I have pointed out many times that I believe it is cruel to hold a horse so far off the lead and to EXPECT the horse to get the jockey out of trouble and cause praise as to what a great race the jockey has ridden when the tactic succeeds. R. MOORE, R.HUGHES and J SPENSER are regular miscreants, PRESVIS would have won at least another 4 group ones, SPENSER some people accept that it is his way of riding, which suggests that flexibility is not his strong point in fact anything where the brain comes into use is not evident. |
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changing the subject, there is a horse running at worcestor tomorrow in the 3.30 called Monkhair. Owned by Group 1 racing Ltd.
Might be worth following the owners within the next few days, and weeks after, they have limited runners so there could be some value with staking accordingly |
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So bazz, this is a genuine point about your post. These are my thoughts, please don't just treat them to being necessarily just contrary to you.
Anyway in an ideal world I'm sure he would have like to have been closer. The problem on this occassion was his draw. To have got a pitch closer to the pace and not been trapped incredibly wide would have required using a lot of petrol too early. We'll never know for sure, but I suggest its possible this would have had a worse effect in the final furlong. He wasn't helped by his pacemaker either who might not as well have run for all the use he was. With regards Hughes and Spencer they have gained a reputation for being very good on hold up horses and I guess they then get booked for more than their fair share of this type of ride. Hughes I would suggest is damn good as well off the front and Spencer can do it as well. Some horses are simply better being held up to use their acceleration, you may not believe that. Presvis would be a good example of that but that meant he was a hostage to fortune a number of times. A horse that is running on Saturday is like that as well. However I agree that Moore has developed an unhealthy habit of anchoring his at the back unnecessarily |
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He had the worst draw of all the runners Bazz. You probably expect too much from jockeys sometimes.
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When a horse comes out of a stall it is PRESUMED that the start has been EQUAL, but a lot of jockeys take a deliberate tug hence they are further back and intentionally so, bad thinking why add to your mounts discrepancies by lingering?
Totally stupid way of thinking, EVERY horse is SUPPOSED to be ridden to gain it's best position, but that is written in the rules , so tell me the rules have been adhered to. |
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The morning line, CATTEMORE said that MOORE had ridden a strange race on SEA MOON in the KING GEORGE, do they not see what is happening in a race? Moore does it regularly, these people get paid huge sums and can't spot what's happening, disgusting.
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It is not as simple as that Bazz. If each jockey rode to get their best position from coffin box draws, then they would find themselves in trouble with the stewards for dangerous riding.
Yes, when they all break from the stalls they are on level pegging, but then when a bend is fast approaching, the affect of a wide draw is there for all to see. |
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Should have read Cattermole, obviously.
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Im talking specifically about the Arc, btw. 18 runners with at least 14 of them trying to win.
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As I posted before the race if he can't find a way, then he is in the WRONG job.
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He won on DALAKHANI from a similar position, can't remember how he rode but I am sure that someone can point me to a re-play of the race and I would be very grateful for that.
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Held up, headway well over 3f out, 6th straight, led 1f out, ridden out
Above from RP website. Sounds very similar to the ride he gave Orfevre. No link to race, perhaps search YouTube |
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6TH home straight I think ORFEVRE was 15th home straight took it up at the 300 metre mark and if I'm wrong I don't mind being corrected.
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Actually spookily like the ride he gave Orfevre having just watched it. Just that Dalakhani finished his race and kept straight - similar distance back to the third.
5 fewer runners and it was his pacemaker that set the pace |
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Four fewer runners, you did this the other day with the CES 35 runners you said just the one fewer in fact, why don't you post the address then I can view, please?
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18-13 = 5
I thought it was 35 runners for Ces, someone on here said its 34. Think you are splitting hairs tbh |
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I apologise there were only 13 runners got fooled by DALAKHANI being draw 14 and not looking any further, DIDN'T see a horse drawn one, but I await the address for the race.
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I need to finish some work bazz....just go to youtube and do a search of dalakhani
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Orfevre faced a bigger field.
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