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Sir Michael Stoutes form has certainly picked up since the ground has softened up a touch ..
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You may be right, redal2, but the first part of the season was generally dry, warm and fine (throughout most of April and May) and I was impressed how forward many of the juvenile fillies looked. The breakdown in the fine weather since the end of May may have put things back a bit.
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Entries are out for the Gr.3 Princess Margaret Stakes on Saturday:
1 1 Angels Will Fall B W Hills 2 14117 Betty Fontaine Mick Channon 3 1 Desert Gazelle Saeed Bin Suroor 4 15 Hawfinch John Gosden 5 21 Lady Gorgeous Mick Channon 6 7162 Luv U Forever Jo Hughes 7 335 Miss Lahar Mick Channon 8 123 Nagham Kevin Ryan 9 511 Piranha Ed Dunlop 10 916 Red Larkspur Roger Teal 11 1 Regal Realm Jeremy Noseda 12 12 Russelliana Sir Michael Stoute 13 Semayyel Clive Brittain 14 12281 Vocational Mark Johnston Russelliana is the obvious form pick following her excellent second in the Gr.2 Cherry Hinton Stakes and it will take a good one to beat her. Her trainer Sir Michael Stoute has a very good record in this race, having won it with Hiaam (1986), Enthused (2000), Russian Rhythm (2002) and Visit (2007). Fillies with prior Group race form used to struggle in the Princess Margaret: in the 18 years from 1982-1999 only three fillies were successful here after running in a Group race, but in the last 11 years there have been six winners that had already run at Group race level, two of those (Enthused and Soraaya) had been runner-up in the Cherry Hinton. Desert Gazelle and Regal Realm are the pick of the opposition. The 6f fillies maiden at the Newmarket July meeting used to be a great trial for this: it provided the winner in 1982 (Royal Heroine), 1983 (Desirable), 1984 (Al Bahathri), 1986 (Hiaam), 1987 (Bluebook), 1994 (Tajannub), 1997 (Embassy) and 1998 (Mythical Girl), the latter two trained by David Loder, who used to train juveniles for the Godolphin operation. Desert Gazelle was an impressive winner of the corresponding maiden this year and rates the main danger to Russelliana. Regal Realm won a late-May HQ maiden that couldn't have worked out better: she narrowly beat Gamilati and Samitar, who both went on to win Group races, with Self Centred (subsequently placed in the Chesham Stakes) back in fifth, Elbe (subsequent Doncaster maiden winner) in sixth, and My Propeller (who won next time by 17 lengths) back in seventh. If one were being hypercritical of the form, one could point to the subsequent performances of the fourth Roedean (third of six in a Kempton maiden next time) and the eighth Damask (well beaten in maidens at Leicester, behind Russelliana, and Newbury). Regal Realm will need to improve on the bare form of that maiden to win on Saturday, but she has reportedly done 'tremendously well' since her win and could well prove up to the task. On the downside, she had quite a hard race first time out and she missed the Albany Stakes due to a setback. Angels Will Fall has missed a number of possible engagements since winning her maiden in very good style at Windsor in May. She was in a different class from her rivals that day and could be a smart filly in the making, but she needs to improve considerably on that form to figure here. Lady Gorgeous won in good style at Newbury recently, showing a good turn of foot to beat the well-fancied Cecil-trained filly Tickled Pink (who had been runner-up to Russelliana previously), but the third, fourth and fifth in that race were nothing special and the form leaves her with something to find. The rest look rather exposed. It's interesting that eternal optimist Clive Brittain has entered his unraced filly Semayyel, who runs this evening at Windsor (I've had a few speculative and probably ill-advised quid on her for this evening's race at around 40/1, as she must be showing something at home). |
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Take your point james. I'm sure there will be some nice fillies emerging from the big yards soon, exciting times
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Prices depending, I may back Desert Gazelle in this.. think she was probably more impressive than I originally gave her credit for on debut ..
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in Princess Margaret ..
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Terrific stuff James
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Just seven runners for the Princess Margaret Stakes on Saturday: Angels Will Fall, Betty Fontaine, Luv U Forever, Miss Lahar, Red Larkspur, Regal Realm, Russelliana. Desert Gazelle has been taken out due to the ground and Russelliana, who should act on yielding ground (both her half-brothers won on yielding ground) is the clear form pick and I'll be surprised if she fails to boost the Cherry Hinton Stakes form of Gamilati.
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Interestingly,Russelliana is Sir Michael's only entry for the Cheveley Park Stakes in late September. He does, however, have three fillies, two of which are unraced, entered in the previous day's Fillies Mile
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Other Cheveley Park Stakes entries I'm interested in are Kortoba, Postale and Preferential (all trained by Criquette Head-Maarek).
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The Gr.2 Prix Robert Papin on Sunday looks very unlikely to have any bearing on the 1000 Guineas Just five go to post and the only two fillies declared to run are the German-trained Kapitala (runner-up to Sylvan Song last time) and the thoroughly exposed Louve Rouge. The race looks booked for the smart colt Family One, who was an impressive winner of the Gr.3 Prix du Bois last time.
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Took the 25/1 Russelliana this morning( only bet) - here's hoping for a nice performance tomorrow which could see those odds halve. The ground should not be a problem as Medicean's progeny seem to handle give ok.
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Just laid Russelliana at 1.99, which is surely too short for tomorrow's race. More likely to be around 5/4 or 11/8, with Regal Realm expected to attract plenty of support.
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Anyone decided what wins the Guineas yet or is this thread detailing a book of potential winners (ie. everything with a chance) but without the maths to see when break even goes bust after backing many 'Guineas type fillies'?
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Desert Gazelles maiden win took a nice boost today with Hello Glory an impressive winner at Ascot for David Simcock.
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Start yer own thread, Eric.
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Hate to agree with Eric, but he does seem to have a point
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A point about what ?
No one is forcing anyone to bet here. You either agree with what is posted or you dont. |
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With regard to Eric's question, no I certainly haven't 'decided' what's going to win the Guineas and I don't know anyone in their right mind who would claim to have done so by this stage of the season. There is currently no stand-out filly with the requisite combination of speed, acceleration, breeding and physical scope (in short, a filly with the necessary class) that can be put forward with any degree of confidence as a likely Guineas winner. There is a handful of fillies that have already done enough (in my opinion) to suggest that they could develop into serious Guineas contenders and doubtless others will emerge in the next few weeks. These are the currently top-rated fillies (according to Racing Post Ratings):
108 Gamilati (M.Al Zarooni) -221 106 Fire Lily (D.Wachman) -1341 105 Samitar (M.Channon) -31 104 Remember Alexander (J.Harrington) -241 104 Russelliana (M.Stoute) -126 103 Maybe (A.O'Brien) -111 103 Shumoos (B.Meehan) -123 103 Inetrobil (K.Ryan) -124 101 Teolane (J.Bolger) -4110 100 Angels Will Fall (B.Hills) -11 100 Best Terms (R.Hannon) -111 99 Regal Realm (J.Noseda) -12 99 La Collina (K.Prendergast) -12 99 Sajwah (B.Hills) -175 99 After (A.O'Brien) -5712 The result of the Gr.3 Princess Margaret Stakes on Saturday merely muddied the waters as far as assessing the 6f fillies is concerned. The favourite Russelliana clearly failed to give her running (for whatever reason) and the finish was fought out by the only other class fillies in the race, the highly regarded pair Angels Will Fall and Regal Realm. The running of Betty Fontaine (beaten 5 lengths previously in the Cherry Hinton Stakes and beaten 4½ lengths on Saturday) suggests that there is not much between the top 6f fillies: a strict reading of that form line suggests that Gamilati is just half a length (a pound or two) ahead of Angels Will Fall. The Princess Margaret Stakes form is devalued to a considerable extent by the proximity in third of 100/1 shot Miss Lahar, who had been beaten in three maidens at Windsor and Bath (each time achieving a rating in the mid-60's), but the runner-up Regal Realm looks a very useful sort who will probably stay a mile. Of all the 6f fillies we have seen so far Samitar and Angels Will Fall have the most progressive profile. Samitar won the Gr.3 Albany Stakes in impressive fashion on just her second start. She was possibly a bit flattered there, as the runner-up Inetrobil had probably done too much and was tiring inside the final furlong, but she certainly has plenty of speed coupled with a very good turn of foot, and her breeding suggests that she has an excellent chance of staying a mile (her grand-sires are Danehill and Rainbow Quest). A strict interpretation of the Cherry Hinton form (using Inetrobil and Illaunglass as a guide) suggests that Gamilati is about 1½ lengths better than Samitar, although another form line involving Sajwah suggests (rather improbably) that Samitar is five lengths better than Gamilati; either way, it wouldn't surprise me if the lightly-raced Samitar were to end the season on a higher rating than Gamilati. Angels Will Fall showed excellent speed and acceleration to win what was probably a sub-standard renewal of the Princess Margaret Stakes but her pedigree suggests that 6f is as far as she will want to go and she makes no appeal as a Guineas candidate. The Queen Mary winner Best Terms and runner-up Shumoos now make very limited appeal as Guineas prospects: the former is a small speedy type who's yet to race beyond the minimum trip, while Shumoos, who appeared to have her limitations exposed in the Cherry Hinton, needs to learn to settle a lot better in her races if she is to excel at 6f let alone a mile. The Irish filly Fire Lily was a ready winner of the Gr.3 Anglesey Stakes and clearly relished the step up in trip (from 5f to an extended 6f) and the ease in the ground at the Curragh (though the winning time suggests that the ground was riding much faster than the official description of 'yielding to soft'). She is a tough and progressive filly but has already had four races and there must be doubts about her getting a mile, as her dam Beauty Is Truth was a 5f sprinter and from a speedy family. The 7f division is currently headed by the Irish fillies Maybe and Remember Alexander, who have each won at Gr.3 level. Maybe's Chesham Stakes form hasn't worked out at all well, but she could do little more than win impressively, and she appeared to be idling in front when beating the highly regarded La Collina in the Gr.3 Silver Flash Stakes last time, where I'm sure she wasn't seen to best advantage: Somasach set a very sedate early pace (the winning time was very slow) and it developed into a two-furlong sprint, but Maybe did enough to win and remains an exciting prospect. Remember Alexander took a huge leap forward (in terms of form) when running out an easy 4 length winner of the Gr.3 Tyros Stakes at Leopardstown, beating the well regarded colts Parish Hall and Tenth Star, but significantly the ground was officially 'soft' (the winning time was more than seven seconds slower than standard) and it remains to be seen whether she can reproduce that level of form on a faster surface (her jockey reported that she loved the soft ground). Of the unexposed maiden winners who have yet to contest pattern races, the ones that appeal to me most at this stage are Questing and Desert Gazelle (see previous posts). Of the fillies that have already contested pattern races the obvious ones to consider for the Guineas are Maybe, Samitar and Gamilati. It's impossible to assess the maiden winners properly until they have raced again, so at this stage I would single out Maybe as the filly that ticks the most boxes, though obviously her current odds don't make much appeal to those who haven't already backed her at much bigger prices. I imagine that we will see her next in the Gr.2 Debutante Stakes, where she could once again be taken on by La Collina. The 6f form still needs a lot of sorting out and I'm hoping that the Gr.2 Lowther Stakes will go some way towards clarifying the picture. |
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The 7f maiden at Newmarket tomorrow has thrown up a few classy fillies in recent years (Sense Of Joy, Seta, Theyskens' Theory) and the one I'm most interested in is Jeremy Noseda's newcomer Really Lovely, the first foal of the high-class filly Simply Perfect (winner of the Fillies' Mile and Falmouth Stakes). She's by Galileo out of a Danehill mare, a magical cross which has produced the likes of Frankel, Teofilo, Roderic O'Connor, Cima De Triomphe, Golden Lilac, Gile Na Greine and Cuis Ghaire. She's entered in the Fillies' Mile and it will be interesting to see whether she is classy and forward enough to win first time out. Others to note are fellow Fillies' Mile entries Defy The Odds (a Henry Cecil-trained Galileo half-sister to winning hurdler Fully Funded, who should stay really well next year) and Fallen For You (a John Gosden-trained Dansili filly out of useful 1m listed winner Fallen Star).
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thats the nicest 2 yo filly ive seen this season i think, fallen for you...very impressive and i know its been working really well with a big rep hence it went of fav.
Thats my 1000 g filly. |
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Yes, the market indicated that Fallen For You was a smart filly and she did it very well: slowly away but always travelling easily, shaken up to go a couple of lengths clear and won comfortably. On the downside, the winning time was slow (2.68s slower than the 0-90 handicap earlier on the card).
As indicated in an earlier contribution to this thread, not many of John Gosden's two-year-old fillies win first time out by at least two lengths in a proper maiden race (i.e. excluding maiden auction races) over 6f or 7f. In the last dozen years there have been just five other fillies that fall into this category and the first four of them all turned out to be smart types: 2000: Crystal Music (21 July, Newmarket 7f maiden: started slowly, led over 2f out, ran on well, by 5 lengths, RPR 96) 2005: Nannina (19 June, Pontefract 6f maiden: strong run to lead well inside final furlong, readily by 3 lengths, RPR 79) 2007: Sense Of Joy (4 August, Newmarket 7f maiden: led over 1f out, ridden clear final furlong, by 5 lengths, RPR 101) 2008: Rainbow View (18 July, Newmarket 7f maiden: led over 1f out, shaken up, ran on strongly, by 6 lengths, RPR 90) 2011: Questing (21 June, Newbury 7f maiden: tracked leaders, went 2nd 4f out, pushed ahead over 1f out, soon quickened, readily came clear 1f out and in no danger final furlong, very easily, RPR 88) Significantly, three of those fillies won at Newmarket over 7f at this time of year (second half of July or early August) and two of those (Crystal Music and Rainbow View) went on to win the Gr.1 Fillies' Mile. The Fillies' Mile will take on greater significance as a Guineas trial this year, as it is run over the same course and distance as the Guineas. Fallen For You and Questing are both smart prospects and it will be interesting to see where they go next. My guess is that Questing will head for the Gr.3 Sweet Solera Stakes next Saturday (the race that Rainbow View won impressively a few years ago), while Fallen For You may wait for the Gr.3 Prestige Stakes or the Gr.2 May Hill Stakes over a mile. 25/1 is a fair price for the Guineas, but I'd be inclined to wait and see where she runs next. Questing looks more of a Guineas filly than Fallen For Me at this stage: she's a speedier type and probably won't get further than a mile, whereas today's winner will stay at least 10f next year. |
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Another indication of the strength in depth of Gosden's juvenile fillies this season is the victory of Elusive Kate in the Prix Six Perfections (Listed) at Deauville this afternoon. This is the race that Helleborine won easily on her second start last season and Elusive Kate showed a very good turn of foot to come from last at the furlong pole to score by 1½ lengths. Her Kempton maiden win has worked out well, with the runner-up Kinetica going on to land the Star Stakes (Listed) at Sandown.
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my 1st entry into this thread...and for this gosden filly..have took the 25s with corals.
backed harbour watch @ 16s for 2000 also this week. |
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I'll be surprised if Harbour Watch stays a mile. His sire Acclamation was a sprinter and his best progeny have all been sprinters. Mind you, I made similar comments about Canford Cliffs (whose sire Tagula had never produced a top miler), so you never know! The other problem is that it's been 60 years since a Richmond Stakes winner went on to land the Guineas.
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he gives me the impression theres plenty more in him @ the end of his races.....i'm sure he'll win over 7f before the seasons over, and then onto next yr...they've certainly had there share of decent milers @ hannons of late...and they seem very impressed y him...
had to have him in my book @ 16s now...seemed a good place to start....not fussed about the richmond trend tbh |
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The fact that he's been given an entry in the Royal Lodge (as well as the Dewhurst) is encouraging and suggests that they're confident he'll get at least 7f. Trends (including breeding trends) are there to be broken and if anyone's going to break the Acclamation trend it's probably going to be Hannon! Good luck.
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out of interest jp....who of the colts have took you eye ( is there a 2000gns fred?)
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There's no 2000 Guineas thread, as far as I know (would someone like to start one?) I tend to concentrate on the fillies, as there tend to be fewer potentially top-class fillies each year than potentially top-class colts (though this year it seems to be the other way round!). Of the colts I have seen so far this season, I don't fancy Power (who won what looked a far-from-vintage renewal of the Coventry Stakes) or Harbour Watch (doubtful stayer on breeding, but stand to be corrected). Of the maiden winners, I was taken by the debut wins of Apollo and Rougemont but feel that they will both prove best at distances in excess of a mile. I've had a small bet on Eastern Sun at around 50/1 and I also like Roger Varian's colt Ektihaam.
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Some excellent insight in your 16.52 post in particular jamesp, always enjoy reading your stuff on here.
I was taken by that performance today and had my first a/p bet of the year in the 1000 Guineas on the winner as a result. |
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goes for the may hill then fillies mile according to johnny g who also says and i quote "she s been my favourite from day one and does everything right "
Very positive. |
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Perhaps Eric Morris can start a 2000 Guineas thread ? Or does it require too much skill ?
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I think we need to see how Questing gets on in her next race before deciding whether or not Fallen For You is the best of Gosden's fillies. Questing was hugely impressive at Newbury and although the form has taken a couple of knocks, the runner-up Way Too Hot is well regarded and could run at Kempton on Wednesday evening. If all goes well in Questing's next race (possibly the Gr.3 Sweet Solera Stakes next Saturday) I imagine she will be aimed at the Gr.2 May Hill Stakes (if the other filly misses that race) and/or the Gr.1 Prix Marcel Boussac.
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Criquette Head-Maarek likes to target the Gr.1 Cheveley Park Stakes and the 1000 Guineas with her best fillies, but this year she is having a very quiet season and clearly all is not well (she has had only 11 winners and currently lies 48th in the French trainers' table). A couple of her better juvenile fillies (Kortoba and Tibaldi) have run disappointingly in the last couple of days. If her fortunes were to change, the ones to look out for are Ventoux (a Galileo half-sister to Special Duty), Postale (a Zamindar half-sister to recent Gr.1 Prix Jean Prat winner Mutual Trust) and Preferential (a Dansili filly out of a half-sister to high-class Etoile Montante).
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It does seem bizarre that Helleborine has not progressed. Maybe there is a problem in the yard. She looked so good as a 2yo.
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Entries are out for the Gr.3 Sweet Solera Stakes at Newmarket on Saturday: Arsaadi, Desert Gazelle, Discourse, Firdaws, Golden Valley, Gooseberry Fool, Hawfinch, Illaunglass, Kinetica, Lily's Angel, Regal Realm, Sajwah, Semayyel, Wahylah, Zingana.
When this race was Listed class (up to and including 2003) it produced plenty of close finishes (in the 12 years between 1988 and 1999 only one filly managed to win by a margin greater than three quarters of a length) and the winners rarely went on to make an impact at a higher level, but in recent years it has produced several smart fillies who have won or been placed at Gr.1 level: Soviet Song (2002) won the Gr.1 Fillies’ Mile and later won four more Gr.1 races; Maids Causeway (2004) was runner-up in the Gr.1 Fillies’ Mile, runner-up in the 1000 Guineas and later won the Gr.1 Coronation Stakes; Nasheej (2005) won the Gr.2 May Hill Stakes, was placed in the Gr.1 Fillies’ Mile, 1000 Guineas and Gr.1 Coronation Stakes; Confidential Lady (beaten a head in 2005) was runner-up in the 1000 Guineas and later won the Gr.1 Prix de Diane; English Ballet (2006) was placed in both the Gr.2 May Hill Stakes and the Gr.1 Fillies’ Mile; Rainbow View (2008) won the Gr.2 May Hill Stakes and the Gr.1 Fillies’ Mile, was sent off odds-on favourite for the 1000 Guineas (finished unplaced) and later won the Gr.1 Matron Stakes; White Moonstone (2010) won the Gr.2 May Hill Stakes and the Gr.1 Fillies’ Mile (and was winter favourite for the 1000 Guineas). In addition, Snow Fairy (subsequent winner of four Gr.1 races including the Oaks and Irish Oaks) was only fourth behind Long Lashes in 2009. This year's renewal could well produce a live Guineas contender. Since 1988 only five winners of this race had already contested a pattern race (Listed class or better), three of those had run in the Star Stakes (Listed) at Sandown. The race tends to go to a lightly raced maiden winner with the scope to go on and make an impact in races such as the Gr.2 May Hill Stakes and Gr.1 Fillies’ Mile. Barry Hills won the race four times in six years (2001-2006), Saeed Bin Suroor has won the last two runnings in 2009 and 2010. The most impressive recent winner of the race was Rainbow View (trained by John Gosden), who won by six lengths in 2008 (RPR 112). The trends suggest that the fillies with Group race experience (Gooseberry Fool, Illaunglass, Lily's Angel, Regal Realm, Sajwah) may be up against it here, although Regal Realm will almost certainly improve for the step up to 7f and must hold a decent chance. The first three home in the Star Stakes (Kinetica, Arsaadi and Hawfinch) also have something to prove here (stepping up in class and likely to be racing on quicker ground than they encountered at Sandown). The unraced Firdaws is a very interesting entry for Roger Varian: she's regally bred (by Mr Greeley out of Oaks winner Eswarah) and clearly very well regarded. Saeed Bin Suroor's recent record in the race suggests that Desert Gazelle is probably the one to be on here: she showed an impressive turn of foot to win over 6f on the July course first time out and promises to be well suited by the extra furlong. If Desert Gazelle misses the race, then Godolphin's other entry Discourse will be fancied to maintain her unbeaten record. The well-regarded Zingana was totally unfancied first time out (she was a 100/1 shot) and was very green but still managed to win a Newbury maiden quite comfortably and will be worth an each-way bet if she's allowed to go off at big odds again this time. |
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Confirmed entries are out for the Gr.1 Phoenix Stakes and Gr.2 Debutante Stakes at the Curragh on Sunday.
Just four fillies have been left in the Phoenix Stakes (After, Homecoming Queen, La Collina and Somasach, all four of whom have also been left in the Debutante Stakes). The most notable filly to have been taken out of the Phoenix Stakes this morning was Fire Lily. The colts (Power, Frederick Engels, Lilbourne Lad, Reply et al) appear to hold all the aces. 19 fillies remain in the Debutante Stakes: After, Chieftess, Criostal, Devotion, Homecoming Queen, Illaunglass, Kinetica, La Collina, Lightening Pearl, Maid To Master, Maybe, Redoutable, Remember Alexander, Rubina, Somasach, Soon, Teolane, Tiffilia, Yellow Rosebud. Notable fillies taken out of the race today include Fire Lily, Inetrobil, Samitar and Switcher). The race has been won by Irish-trained fillies for the last 20 years, so the stats are firmly against the two remaining British entries (Illaunglass and Kinetica), though their presence would provide useful form lines to races like the Albany Stakes, Cherry Hinton Stakes and Star Stakes. Maybe will be a warm order to enhance her claims for next year's classics, but Remember Alexander and La Collina will provide a stern test (particularly if the ground turns soft, which will play to Remember Alexander's strengths). It's a good race for favourites (10 of the last 20 favourites have obliged) and Aidan O'Brien has a good record with his fancied runners (five of his nine runners that started shorter than 2/1 were successful, with three of the unsuccessful runners having failed to win a pattern race beforehand), so the stats point to Maybe maintaining her unbeaten record. Her Guineas backers will be hoping for a clear-cut and comfortable victory, which would give her a great chance of following up in the Gr.1 Moyglare Stud Stakes later in the month. |
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Questing's form received a welcome boost this evening when Way Too Hot, runner-up to John Gosden's filly at Newbury, hacked up in a decent-looking Kempton maiden. Clive Cox's filly showed an impressive turn of foot when given a couple of taps with the whip to shoot several lengths clear and won very comfortably despite veering halfway across the track inside the final furlong. Questing's next race is awaited with considerable interest.
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Yesterday saw the debut of a smart filly in the Prix de Lisieux over 6f at Deauville. Mashoora, a full-sister to Lowther winner Silk Blossom, showed a smart turn of foot a furlong out and won eased down by 2½ lengths in a winning time that was 2.53s faster than the colts' equivalent race half an hour earlier. Jean-Claude Rouget's filly looks to have a bright future and could run next in the Gr.3 Prix du Calvados on 20 August. The Prix de Lisieux has been won by some useful types in the past, notably Conference Call (runner-up to Zarkava in the Gr.1 Prix Marcel Boussac) and East Of The Moon (winner of the French Guineas and Prix de Diane).
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Incidentally, the two Criquette Head-Maarek-trained newcomers finished a well beaten 9th and 10th of the 11 runners behind Mashoora. There is clearly something amiss at the H-M yard at Chantilly.
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