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brigust1 I am sure you will be doing this with your bet. What price did you get?
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MM, ruby should ride Denman. 11-4 in
the hennessy, plain and simple punting that is the winner. But if you ride a horse as good as kauto you know he is perfection. You simply have to ride the best horse, not the best handicapped horse. Ruby can't get off the greatest horse ever. He knows how simply perfection the horse is. |
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tbh I think this ship has sailed. Great horses but maybe last wins finished both.
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Wont run, simple. Scare as much of the competition away as possible and then bang, denman 3rd hennessy landed.
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Somw quite laughable stuff from kirk on this thread, ridiculous
Kauto Star is not a great staying chaser, despite having won 10 grade 1s at staying trips (3 miles and up) 1 win from his last 5 at 3m+ (3m+ includes bang on 3 miles fyi) Denman will be under par if Kauto runs - What like the time he needed the run in 2007 and 2009? And fyi Kauto Star has fell 5 times, not 4 [;)][;)] |
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^ fell or unseated [smiley:crazy]
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cv kauto is not the greatest horse ever as good as he is.
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Staying chaser as when he goes above 3 miles he is anything but a great horse. Facts are just facts to me and he has only won 1 of his last 4 when he has gone above 3miles .. in other words when he had to show stamina over speed. Edredon Bleu won the King George but he wasnt a great staying chaser as he only had speed not stamina over a staying trip.
List the 5 times he fell or unseated. |
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..under uk rules.
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Auteil as 3 y/o
QM Champion Chase 2008 BF Chase This year's Gold Cup 31st Jan 05 at Exeter [;)] Best staying chaser for 40 years hth |
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now he says uk rules [smiley:crazy]
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Well that is what he jumps here and I did say 24 races but well done for pointing out how far back his jumping problems go.
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Can't believe how ridiculously picky you are being over the barrier what you'd call a staying trip btw, just to make it suit your argument
You say Denman wasn't right in the 2009 Gold Cup, yet the mere suggestion that Kauto Star wasn't right in 2008 isn't right, you just say that Denman is the superior stayer that day. You are quite simply one of those characters that like to knock a champion purely because you think it's the cool thing to do. |
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This isn't precision engineering Eric. And we all know if KS breaks a leg at the first fence it is very unlikely he will win.
Baring all that I prefer to look at it in the round and without the benefit of hindsight. KS does stay the trip, no doubt about that. If the ground isn't right he won't run. The course is fair and this race was won by One man, a 2 mile Champion Chaser. The top weight has won this race 3 times in the last 5 years and by 7 Cheltenham Gold Cup winners and since 1957 10 horses have carried 11st 10lb or more. KS does jump well generally, like most racehorse he can make mistakes but until the race unfolds no-one knows the outcome. Ruby will ride, I have absolutely no doubt about that whatsoever. What the opposition will be on the day and how ready they, the opposition, will be for the race I don't know either. And KS will be handicapped on his own known ability. That argument applies to every runner in the race including Denman. Stop applyig the risks to KS only, every runner in the handicap will be in the same boat and some, most will even be carrying more than their allotted handicap weight. That gives him, KS the edge over them in some resects. From that point, if you bet ante post, they are the risks you are taking but you are getting a price applicable to those risks. As I said stop attacking KS. Apply your rules to every other runner and see if they apply. He is not odds on ffs. Look at Denman. Will the ground suit? Will the race be run to suit him? Can he jump around Newbury this time? Who will ride him? Is he well handicapped? Is he as good as he was? You don't know, and you are only guessing if you say you do. You see what I mean? |
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Cant remember Arkle or Best Mate losing 3 from 4 at staying trips above 3 miles. They were true stayers Kauto isnt imo however he is the best 3 miles horse and most versatile horse I will ever see.
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brigust1 what price have you taken Kauto for the Hennessy? Judging by your illogical posts you are looking to trade out to lock in a profit as soon as he is declared for the race (you hope). He will half in price so not surprised you are avidly keen for him to run.
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In terms of being picky about 3 miles and above 3 miles. What kind of a mug comment is that?
Queen Mother winners win King Georges but they dont win Gold Cups. That is because of stamina issues. Every year a new King George winner arrives we get the big question whether he will stay the extra trip on the stiffer Cheltenham track (and jump its undulations). We have it every time there are some excellent horses who failed to get the extra in a true run race. Kauto has won it but only when there was no pace on, whenever there has been pace on he hasnt had the stamina or jumping ability to win. Anyone offering an impartial view can see that. His strength is speed over stamina and when he goes above 3 miles and his opponents have tested this they have taken him down ... 3 of his last 4 runs to be precise. |
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and the race he won he was allowed to travel within himself as a well under par Denman didnt set his usual pace up front. Amazed Denman was 2nd after his heart problems it says a lot about how poor the rest of the field was that year.
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Eric I refuse to accept my posts are illogical.
I have backed KS for the Hennessy, what price I backed him at is no business of yours. I have always said, throughout this thread, that I think he will run and Ruby will ride him. I have also said Newbury is my local track and I will be going. How someone like you, who repeatedly and tediously abuses Kauto Star's ability and adds nothing at all positive to this thread can suggest my posts are illogical and all I am doing is waiting to trade out when he runs is annoying and unacceptable. I will now leave you and this thread and you can continue talking rubbish to yourself. |
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Why cant you tell me the price, you see your lobbying for him to run in the face of the facts I have posted about him at trips above 3 miles and his poor jumping stats I detailed without coherent replies suggest to me you realise all this and are just intending to trade out for a very good profit on him as soon as he is declared for the race. There is little point debating the facts with you in other words. You just keep pushing for him to be declared then collect if successful by all means but there is no point me debating this with you.
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I stated many times Kauto Star is the best I will ever see at 3 miles and the most versatile horse I will ever see. Laughable how you can twist that into me abusing the horse because I am stating unpalatable facts about him when he goes above 3 miles and his poor jumping where he is definitely not an all-time great.
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Look kirk changed his username to eric because he'd been marked as an idiot.
His stat that Kauto has lost 3 of his 5 runs at greater than 3m shows how stupid he is. Denman has run 7 times at greater than 3miles and won 3 lost 4. He doesn't stay. These are the facts after all according to kirk. Kauto's form reads 1221F, the defeats are to Denman in the Gold Cup, and falling this year (where the trip had nothing to do with the blunder at the 8th fence) and the other defeat came over 3m1f 3 weeks after the 2008 Gold Cup where Kauto was "drawing clear when blundered 2 out" he was winded and caught on the line. No other horse who has won 2 Gold Cups would have such stupid stuff said about him. 121F is his Gold Cup form. |
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I dont respond to your posts but my usernames may have a lot to do with idiots like you being proven wrong by me then stalking me to get me banned. You follow me around here it is embarrassing mate I only post on threads where I have a genuine interest in it, not because a certain poster has posted on there .. sad.
Anyway people can keep ignoring the facts if they want. I probably wouldnt have been able to lay off half my 20k win on Kauto last season at such short odds on the eve of the race due to the ground if it wasnt for blinkered posters like CVB. |
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Pretty much everyone on here knows you spout mostly rubbish on here.
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So you keep telling them all ... lol... clown.
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The more kirk spouts his nonsense the more irrelevant he becomes.
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ha ha my previous stalkers all coming out of the woodwork no. What did I prove you wrong over kevo I cant remember?
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To be fair the standard of understanding of the make-up of the leading horses on here, with a couple of exceptions, is shocking. kevo is totally clueless and not worth a read.
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The only person that's been proved wrong many times kirk is yourself; but your to blind and bigoted to see it.
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aka has tremendous insight for me at times if it wasnt for posters like him and several others we would learn nowt on here. It is no coincidence they are not fanboys of horses taking exception to any negative facts analysed, they have open minds which is why they see things many others dont.
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As ive stated before the owner wants that BIG Timeform rating, the one he can only get in a handicap of this stature
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Maybe so zilzal1 but you are not expecting a peak Denman against him if Kauto runs are you?
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i dont expect both of them to turn up as i dont think PN would run him if he wasnt near his peak
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Fair point.
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eric_morris 06 Nov 10 11:48
To be fair the standard of understanding of the make-up of the leading horses on here, with a couple of exceptions, is shocking. You set the standard. |
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another good staying performance from the non stayer
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Total non stayer like Denman FFT, remember Denman has lost 4 won 3 from his 7 races over above 3miles
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He struggled a bit there imagine the extra 2 furlongs giving chunks of weight away he aint a big horse ... then we will be talking about staying. They should stick to the KG based on that. Imperial Commander would have mullered him there.
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Kauto star isn't a big horse?
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No.
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