He is going to Haydock. Neptune will be Nicholls 3rd runner at Newbury

Nicholls nothing to lose??
Only destroying his greatest horse,and probably the best he will ever have.But hey he may win,then win the KG,and then run a blinder in the GC,but if it goes pear shaped we will all know who to blame.
It just aint worth the risk imo,for what is essentially a handicap won by some average animals over the years.
Like i have said,Kauto has nowt to prove,or should'nt have,to anyone.
Denman is Denman,Kauto is Kauto.Let them be.

Ok I think your getting carried away. Why would the Hennessey "destroy" Kauto Star?

But running off 11-12 in a Hennessy isn't much different to running off 11-10 in a Gold Cup. Especially given they can ease him over the finish if he's beaten as they can save the horse for Kempton.

Basically Kauto has proven to be beyond the realms of resilience, his spark has never dimmed despite countless tough races and a career spanning back seven seasons now.

I can't see how the Hennessy could do anything worse than take the edge off and cost him the King George, that's why I don't agree with running him, but I can see why Nicholls is receptive to the idea.

I think if he lost the Hennessy or even won it he would have a very hard race which would seriously affect his King George chances. He will not have had as hard a race in his life let alone so early in the season at his age. Defeat in the King George, which requires a totally different cv to the Hennessy, could lead to a fruitless season as that race is without question the conditions that ideally suit him. That is the risk.

Did he win the Gold Cup last year?

He still needs to be fresh, but Down Royal can be a bit of training in public given the opposition and relative lack of importance of the race. While the Hennessy is gives only a week less rest than running at Haydock. Kauto had a titanic battle there last year and was utterly sublime at Kempton. So the thinking may be a week less rest might have minimal impact and give him a shot at winning two important races.

This is the thinking, I still disgree with it.

He didn't go to Down Royal because it was too close to Haydock. By going for the Hennessy they have an extra week and Kauto has only run in the Gold Cup in the past 10 months. He has been given plenty of rest and will be less wound up for Down Royal than he was for Haydock last year. They know it is a risk, they can always pull the plug on the Hennessy run if they want to at any point. But this is effectively the last chance they will have to run in a quality Handicap.

I disagree with him, Kauto should not run there. He should just aim for Kempton and Cheltenham. But I can see their point of view and how he can have a an opener at Down Royal and run in both the Hennessy and Kempton potentially at peak or close to peak fitness.

If he likes Newbury like Nicholls said and puts in a round of fencing like he did at Cheltenham, Haydock or Kempton last year he can jump them into the ground. Given as I believe Denman has regressed since last years win.

It's not totally a lost cause and he can be defeated and still come out a winner. But it's just something that could potentially take the edge off him for the King George and I'd prefer him to focus 100% on that.

Out of interest, would people still be against this idea if KS didn't run this weekend in Ireland and went to the Hennessy fresh instead?

I too would prefer them to focus on a 5th King George, neither am I convinced that this is about enhancing the horse's reputation as far as the owner is concerned. I watched his interview on RUK yesterday and felt it came across more as 'lets get as much out of him as we can, while we can'. I accept I may be wrong there though and just read C S wrong as I find him quite a cold character.

I think Clive knows that this is the last season where Kauto can be at or near his best and that if the horse is showing signs of well being he will run.

Down Royal will be be a training race where no sleep will be lost if he is beaten as they will probably run him quite unfit.

They want to run him in the Hennessy. I know Clive must want to see how he'd get on under 190.

To be honest Kauto has never even looked close to being beaten in the King George so you can understand why they don't mind going there with a weeks less rest.

He will still go for the Gold Cup fresh and then Clive has said he may run a 5th time, adding the Punchestown Gold Cup or going for the Whitbread at Sandown.

He's saying why not go for it this season. Kauto is so tough if any horse can take it, he can. You know what, why not go for it. Horse has enough records as it is. Everything else he does now is a bonus.

I totally agree with cry here. And to suggest Clive Smith is trying to get what he can from Kauto is silly.
More than anything he want's to give the horse every opportunity he can, while he can. This could easily be his last season and the 5th KG is no gimmee. Also this area, top class handicaps,has never been taken so why not?
A bit like Sea the Stars staying in training, we will never know, and can only speculate how he would have done.

^ Precisely my point! last season he was considered to need looking after and only running 3 times and now, 'He's tough, he can take it'. Which is it ffs. I couldn't care less if he runs 50 times or 5 but if he wants to make as much dough as possible because he feels this is the horse's last viable season then he should say that or say nothing, not try and dress it up prettily as wanting to enhance and cement the horse's reputation.

Goodness me you are so cynical Qu. How do you get fun from this sport?
They have run KS so few times in his interest,a bit like Best Mate, not for the money ffs. CS certainly doesn't need the money, and that's a fact. And he's thinking about giving him one more run, how on earth can that be wrong?
He ran 4 times the year before and CS said they got it wrong last year by only running 3 times.
Win, lose or draw it will be a fantastic day at Newbury when he turns up. And I hope Denman turns up as well. Wonder who will ride him, AP I suppose. Magic, can't wait.

Nowhere have I said I felt it was wrong, I expressed my opinion on how I had interpreted the interview and also stated that I accepted I may be wrong if you bother to read it. You however, seem quite certain that you have a complete insight and understanding into the workings and motives of Mr.Smith. I'm sure the truth, as always, falls somewhere between the two.

I too hope he runs and while we have differing opinions here and are quite clearly not going to agree I respect your right to yours and would hope you would grant me the right to mine too.

Good luck with your wagers.

Sorry Qu I wasn't denegrating your opinion just the financial thing. That's completely wrong. In my opinion of course.
Last season I think they thought KS wouldn't be beaten and that was their goal. Also mindful of the fact that his career is coming to an end. But he fell when odds on in the Gold Cup.
This season I think will be his last so they are running him as often as possible without risking too much and then he will retire.
With that in mind the only place to go, realistically, is the Hennessy. And add to that the status he would achieve and reception he would receive if he pulled it off.
I have always thought it was a good idea and now it looks like coming off.
Bring it on.

Masterminded Joined: 24 Jun 08
Replies: 887 02 Nov 10 22:16
Average animals?

Mandarin
Mill House
Arkle
Bregawn
Burrough Hill Lad
One Man
Denman

to name but a few.

...

Nice list there my friend,and i never said good horses aint won it.
Now list the average ones over the years and see how
long that list is!!

At the end of the day we are talking about a Handicap however you dress it up.Yes its an achievement to win with a lot of weight,and it seems pretty high up in peoples thinking when judging  a horse.But for me its not needed for the horse.Forget what we public want,i selfishly would love to see it,forget what the owner wants and maybe the trainer(although i aint so sure he wants it),and focus on a horse that owes us and them absolutely nothing.I dont think the horse will enjoy it or needs it.I may be wrong,its just my opinion,and if he runs,by god i hope he wins,but more importantly he comes to no harm - And by that i mean the jockey asking and asking against good horses with a lot less to carry. Cos we all know he will try to find everytime.

Eric,
You will be pleased to hear that I agree with pretty much everything that you've said here regarding weight. However, I would like to add that there is a limit to how fast any particular horse can run, some are just slower than others and taking any amount of weight off some of KS's opponents will not allow them to run as fast as him carrying 11-12, particularly as he is used to carrying that and with a lower limit of 10st. I know that I've not articulated my thoughts brilliantly there, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think the weight will be as much a factor as ground/trip and that he will likely go very close.