|
By:
Having reflected on it. I say why not go for it, if he's spot on in the week of the race why not run him. We all want to see it, it'll be great for the sport.
|
|
By:
I still don't understand why a dual Gold Cup winner, coming towards the end of a wonderful career, with a King George and Gold Cup on the horizon needs to be going for the Hennessy.
Two or three years ago, maybe, but now? 1 of the last 10 winners older than 8. 8 of last 10 winners finished in first 2 last time out. 7 of last 10 winners second season chasers. |
|
By:
Resner,
I am sure he would enjoy it to a point,but the last half mile i would be concerned about.If they enter they try to win imo,and that could have a lasting effect on the horse,especially if he gets into a battle,which he will almost certainly. Just dont think its the right race for him,it never has before,so why now?? I have a feeling the owner knows!! Yes,its great for the public,but that dont make it right,not for me anyway. |
|
By:
Trends fail when taking about horses as good as Kauto and Denman. That 1 of the last ten was Denman after all.
|
|
By:
Bud, I do see your point. I wouldn't want to see any harm come to kauto. But he has been in plenty of tough battles before the last 3 betfair chases for a start and each time he's come out and won the KG. I know he's older now and no one knows how he'll take it, but if he not at his best anymore he'll probably be involved in tough races each time he runs this year.
|
|
By:
Yeh,like i said before,i can be a bit of a drama queen!!
I am probably being too protective,after all he is, as some have said, a racehorse and should be seen on the track. I just think they found the right way to campaign the horse and would be better off sticking to that,and i think Nicholls agrees with that.This is clearly the owners idea,and i think hes wrong-time will tell on that one. I genuinely think its the wrong race for him,but will gladly be proved wrong. |
|
By:
Well the 2008 gold cup was brutal and kauto turned out three weeks later at Aintree only going down because he winded himself with a bad jump at the end. He is tough as nails, I can't see why the Hennessy could ever leave lasting damage given he won't make all. If he if switched off and in a rhythm like the gold cup and king george wins last year he may have a decent chance.
|
|
By:
I assume if, and when he wins then he has to be rated over 200?
I'm so close to booking tickets, but I'm not so sure they will run him. I would cry if he won though ! |
|
By:
He will run. I'm convinced and I'm going.
There are no other races between Ireland and the KG and they have clearly stated they want to a) run 3 times before the GC. b) have a rest after the KG and c) would like to tackle the Hennessy. They do't want to meet Imperial Commander before Kempton so there is nowhere else to go. KS always struggles first time out so win, lose or draw in Ireland Newbury here he comes. |
|
By:
Its by no way a given he will run.He is entered like a load of others and a fair few will not run,he may be one of them.
lets get Ireland done and then see how the horses is.Hopefully they will then do whats the best for the horse,and if that means the Hennessey then so be it. |
|
By:
If he beats Denman giving half a stone over 3m 2f at Newbury,i for one will be amazed.i certainly dont think he could have done it when both were at their peak,so maybe Denman has regressed more??
Would explain Smiths thinking imo |
|
By:
I think you may be right. Denman was getting beat last time at Newbury IMO - I'll probably get lynched for this but I don't think he finds much for pressure. When at his best he could gallop relentlessly and hardly anything got near him. I think more recently he hasn't been able ot do this and when push comes to shove he doesn't find much IMO.
|
|
By:
its certainly possible that the Hennessy took it out of him.Yes he was 2nd in the Gold Cup,but never really looked like beating IC if i remember correctly.
|
|
By:
its not as if Kauto "needs" to run anywhere. However if I owned the beast I would want him, in probably his last season at the top to run in all the best races. So it would be Hennessy, King George, Gold Cup and grand national for me.
|
|
By:
What about the Whitbread or Irish National??
|
|
By:
I think it will be:
JN Wine, Down Royal Hennessy, Newbury King George, Kempton Gold Cup, Cheltenham If he wins the Gold Cup he will retire. If not: ****ss Gold Cup, Punchestown. Just the one handicap. |
|
By:
G u i n n e s s Gold Cup ffs
|
|
By:
One thing i know,i wont be having a bet until i know if Kauto is running or not.
|
|
By:
if this happens i would be disgusted . smith and nicholls ure greedy tw ats
|
|
By:
just out of interest if this happned would big bucks be running from out of the handicap? hed still be a good thing as long as he stays on his feet
|
|
By:
y does a horse whos won 4 king georges 2 tingle creeks 2 gold cups need to be running in a fukking handicap its degrading. leave denman to it and give him a nice break this horse is special and should be treated that way not treated like this. i thought he needed loads of time inbetween his races make ure fukking mind up nicholls tell it us str8 . its disgusting if he turns up wouldnt make him any better a horse if he won because in my eyes he couldnt get any better than hes already shown he can be . joke joke joke joke if this horse turns up there
|
|
By:
I don't understand why they're being greedy? Neither of them need money. Big Bucks not entered in the Hennessey
|
|
By:
and y does nicholls not want to take on imperial commander but hell give denman 8 pound all day
|
|
By:
i no hes not entered but if he was i mean
|
|
By:
i dont mean greedy money wise but winwise. y does a horse as great as any 1 will ever c need to be slugging it out off a huge mark in a henessy which is a handicap . this is were flat racing ahs the right idea horses such as this shouldnt be in handicaps i no denman has won it twice but hes a horse tailormade for handicaps . kauto is all class and should be treated with more respect
|
|
By:
Pretty sure if it runs the main reason won't be because the connections want more prize money.
|
|
By:
i wouod like to hear wat ruby has to say about this wat he honestly thinks i dont think hed advise it thats for sure
|
|
By:
Kauto has won 4 KG's, if he wins 5 is really much more of an achievement than 4. Why not try to improve the legacy of Kauto by doing something he hasn't done before - if he wins, it would be an amazing achievement, if he doesn't, at least they gave it a shot, and IMO he won't be far away if they do. The only thing you can argue is that maybe they should have tried sooner, perhaps he's past his best now. Who knows, but should be some race finding out.
|
|
By:
To answer the many ramblings below from dananderson,
Firstly a very rich Clive Smith does not a bit of extra winnings by going for the Hennessy. He has only run Kauto 7 times in the past 2 years when he could have run him more if money was what he was after. Next, Kauto has 3 Betfair Chases what is the point in going for 4 with no more betfair million? As a prep race for Kempton Down Royal would be better than Haydock. Also Nicholls has to keep owners happy, he has a horse for the future in What a Friend who deserves to be his no1 for Haydock. Running in handicap of the stature of the Hennessy is not degrading. Also winning off a mark of 190 will surely increase both the horses official rating and Timeform rating. It will go a huge way to impressing the "traditionalists" and also it would be assumed if he could give weight and a beating to Denman then he could easily have won a few Hennessys had he turned up there in the past. It certainly isn't showing Kauto a lack of respect running him in the Hennessy with only a couple of pounds more on his back. |
|
By:
Brilliantly put CV.
|
|
By:
someone ask betfair to put a market up
kauto star to run in hennessy yes or no could be interesting |
|
By:
This is all about(imo) securing Kauto's place in history, PN has probably got the hump about being told about great horses winning handicaps off a championship mark, which is how the ratings given to Arkle , Flyingbolt, Dessie, et al, have been measured.
PN does not like defeat, note his Record after running gold cup losing hoses after the race who were fancied to win and notice that he's not run the winner of the race after. Credit to connections though if they do run him, racing DOES need superstars, and remember the public loved Dessie because he came back for more |
|
By:
I don't for a second belive KS will run in this race. His whole season is geared about winning a fifth consecutive King George. Why on earth would they ruin his chances of achieving this, and running in this race would ruin his chance; Nicholls stated throughout last season KS needs to be kept fresh.
This whole excercise is gamesmanship from the Nicholls camp, if they manage to scare of a couple of potential runners, who don't want to ruin their hcp mark, and make Denmans job easier then it's a job well done. |
|
By:
I can see what Dananders is saying.Kauto is a multiple group 1 winner.I just dont buy this winning a handicap off top weight is any better achievement then winning say another King George.Of course he might win both,but then again....
Kauto is a Group1 horse,not a group3 handicapper and thats that as far as i am concerned. Oh and its Smiths idea not Nicholls,well thats my take,reading between the lines.Ruby was mentioned,and i agree,i dont think he would want it either. Smith imo,just wants to be known as an owner of a horse that could be mentioned alongside Arkle. Owners bl00dy ego!!!! If he runs and it goes pear shaped i will give him both barrels,in front of everyone. |
|
By:
CV,if he gives weight and a beating to Denman,it will be cos Denman has regressed,no other reason,and in no way would i think that proves he could have beaten Denman when Denman was at his peak.All it will prove is that Kauto can give weight to lesser animals,well so he should as he is so much better than them,Denman not included of course.
|
|
By:
That's your opinion bud, mine is kauto has no equal and never has in this era. The times he's been beat he either fell or was below his best. Opinions will always be there even if he wins the hennessy off 190. But if he does that he'll have won off a mark 16lbs higher than Denman ever has.
|
|
By:
Just a few points:
Fashion, there is a market now, you can back or lay KS depends on what your opinion is. Zilzal, spot on. I think this is about esablishing KS's place in history. It will do him no harm and may enhance his position. GI, he will run unless he gets injured in Ireland. IMo.Book your ticket now. And remember before last years KG he had a brutal battle with IC at Haydock and the year before he fell at the last at Haydock. PN will not be sending him to Haydock this year and this is the only race on the radar. Bud, a 3 times GR1 winner ran in the Melbourne Cup, a handicap the other day. Its not about being a handicap it's about the standing of the Hennessy in the racing calendar. Some Group 1's are not worthy of the name yet the Hennessy has a high standing in racing folklore. Ask yourself why would CS want to get him beaten? The KG is the easy option but he want's to give KS a shot at history. Why not? This is not about CS's ego this is very much about KS's place in history. He deserves that. And you are already denegrating Denman ffs. How do you know whether Denman is better this year than other years? You don't. |
|
By:
Regarding the standing of the Hennessy, no one mentioned that it's just a grade 3 handicap when Denman won twice off of top weight - we all said what a remarkable achievement - because it was/is. So this argument for me just doesn't stand up. Denman's Hennessy's are thought of almost if not as highly as his GC. One of the arguments those who rate Denman more highly than Kauto have is that he's won the Hennessy, the way I see it, all connections are trying to do is give Kauto a chance to achieve the same (if not more considering the bigger weight and late stage of his career).
|
|
By:
And you are already denegrating Denman ffs. How do you know whether Denman is better this year than other years? You don't
I aint saying that Brigust. What i am saying is that if Kauto beats Denman giving weight,that would tell me has,unless Kauto has improved!! When competing with each other the score is 1-1 when both have completed.Both times their were valid reasons for the defeats,so their is no evidence that says over 3m2f one is better than the other. |
|
By:
Kauto has improved immensely from the day Denman beat him in 2008. He went from a 178 to 193 horse. Denman at his best could not of beaten the Kauto that turned up in the 2009 gold cup. Simple as that for me.
|