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Kauto-Hennessy Gold Cup??
Kauto-Hennessy Gold Cup??
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Replies: 532
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See what you mean mate,makes sense if beaten.
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Decision today??
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I don't think they will decide 'to' run but whether it is on the cards or definitely not on the cards.
I know which camp I'm in and perhaps action on the ante post market may be our first guide. |
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Going straight for the King George.
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King George - Gold Cup :)
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Well it was fun discussing it,but in the end common sense prevailed.Too risky for his 5th KG.
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Makes sense not running him, Ruby injured and horse was a little lethargic after Down Royal.
Denners to make history so.  |
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Cop out for me. I know I'm talking through my pocket but my reasoning was sound, in my opinion of course.
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Am sure brigust1 knows this is the right decision
and will join us in getting behind this exceptional 3 mile chaser for a historic victory in his tailor made race the KG. |
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Actualy Eric I know this is the wrong decision. After the KG if KS wins easily Clive Smith will wonder whether he missed a superb opportunity with all those good horses out of the handicap. On the other hand if he fails to win the KG it will be too late for him to take advantage of the Hennessy weights. He will not get the same chance again that's for sure.
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Nichols said the house was a bit tired aster down royal and with ruby injured, these little things against running were the reason he isn't running. He'd have to be in peak form to win it off 190.
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* horse
* after |
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Right decision in my opinion, would love to see him run in a handicap but why not the Bet365 instead. That way he can have his traditional build up to the King George and Gold Cup and in the event he comes out of the Gold Cup in good shape he has only had the 3 runs. At that point a decision could be taken to try a top historically significant handicap. We know he loves Sandown (2 Tingle creek wins).
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I am obviously in a minority but there you are. And the Bet365 is not the Hennessy, it is never as competitive and would be an easy cop out. I think Desert Orchid was the last Gold Cup winner to win it, lower grade race for me.
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"Smith revealed a desire for his star to further seal his place in racing immortality by defying top weight in one of the sport's biggest handicaps".
A good sporting gesture by Clive Smith the owner of Kauto Star; but Paul Nicholls is a realist. |
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When you consider that Best Mate a triple Gold Cup "championship" winner was beaten when conceding weight in only 2 of the conditional (non handicap)chases that he contested. Kauto Star and Denman must be so superior to him.
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Unlucky with your Kauto bet on the Hennessy kevo.
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I backed KS in the Hennessy, but there you are.
When the time came to stand up and be counted Smith and Nichols f u c k e d off. 'We may run in the 365 if the ground is not too firm'. What utter b o l l o c k s. Anyone with half a brain knows the 365 is no Hennessy. This year you have Diamond Harry, Weird Al and Pandorama to name but three all unexposed. By the time the 365 comes around they will all be completely exposed and have had a tough season. Like I said complete b o l l oc ks. |
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brigust, it was never going to happen from day 1. It smelt and felt like utter bullshoite from the beginning and each time I checked the market on here he was available at double figure prices.
It is such an illogical race for Kauto to run in. |
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I'm not being argumentative or rude but t say that I'm not entirely sure you understand the history of horse racing Sin? Seriously Clive Smith knows what the Hennessy means. It bears little comparison to any other staying handicap and is one in which Arkle is repeatedly reviewed and revisited having won it twice with 12st 7lb and been beaten twice. It is such a good race to win IF you are a champion. Unexposed ex novices which this year includes some well regarded sorts take on the best of their elders. Unless the best of the elders duck the issue of course. Believe me that is exactly why this race above all others was considered.
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I understand what you are saying Brigust, and aware what prestige the race like the Hennessy carries, but I never thought for one moment they would run, that's all.
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You're absolutely right Sin. Had I thought that way I would have saved a couple of ton. I suppose that's why I'm so p i s s e d off.
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Quick quiz here. In which Hennessy did Dessie the 'greatest weight-conceding horse since Arkle' achieve this well earned title?
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Did he run in the Hennessey? Didn't think he did but there you are. I have a problem getting my name right these days.
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In which RP Chase/VC/TC/Whitbread GC/Irish National did Denman do a weight carrying performance
Denman's highest winning handicap mark was what 174???, by a couple of lengths Still a bit off 185 sunshine |
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Correct answer ... he achieved that weight-conceding title without running in a Hennessy.
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zilzal
aren't you a fan  |
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Im not a fan of Erics "Pravda" tactics...
And id have Dessie's efforts going left handed WAY above Denmans going right handed |
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Shame Dessie fell short in Championship races outside the King George. Hammered by Pearlyman and co over 2 miles and eclipsed by horses like Nortons Coin and numerous others off levels over a staying trip. Horses dont have the handicap route to greatness now as it isnt held in the same esteem as speed/stamina off levels against the best which is a good thing compared to beating inferior inconsistent animals who might not even be fit in a.n.other handicap being readied for a different race unlike Championships where everyone is trained to peak.
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LOL, A lot of horses going the wrong way would have been proud of Dessies record
Won a Cheltenham Gold Cup, Martell chase, placed in Two gold Cups and Two Champion Chases, really bad ay, despite being a stone plus inferior going that way. Plus the fences are not as stiff as they were, you carry less weight nowdays and the handicapper believes in weight inflation Larry Holmes verses Graham Norton imo And yet Clive Smith STILL WANTED that Handicap win, despite what all you handicap haters think............ |
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it's a shame desert orchid hasn't won as many gold cups as denman.
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Personally I wouldn't put Denman in the same field as Desert Orchid. One dimensional tank just about sums him up. Dessie would be going so fast Denman's jumping would fall to bits.
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that reply should have come before zilzal.....just trying to make the point that along with the many weight carrying performances dessie put up.....on the level weight championship race....he won a gold cup too.
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Im interested on what mark Phil Smith would have given to a horse that won by 8l off 185 nowdays....
As Bobby Dazzler known on here as one of IC'S owners on here, marks given today seem high, makes IC better than Captain Christy and Burrough Hill Lad |
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IC better than Burrough Hill Lad LMFAOB (B=backwards) you can see the hyper inflation in ratings these days off levels is a total joke. Its as though the new order begun by Best Mates connections outside of handicaps and followed by others since has totally flummoxed the handicapper in giving a realistic mark.
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Any thread with Kauto in the title always ends up full of people disparaging great horses.
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People on here enjoy discussing greats , their strengths and yes their weaknesses. The day we need to worry is when nobody cares enough to do this. There are plenty of them on the Horse Racing forum.
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And thats the only thing that im likely to agree with Eric On
Here's a good article about Phil Smith and his "Missing" re evaluated raing for Arkle by Timeform http://www.timeform.com/show_article.asp?num=3206 |
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Wrong there CV. I can't see anyone disparaging KS. I may criticise his owner and trainer's choice of race but I haven't criticised Kauto at all.
After all this is a forum not a shrine. This is where individual opinions are put forward and discussed. I may prefer one horse and you may prefer another. It would be a very sad world if we all liked the same horse. Or maybe not providing we all agreed with you. And you want to be a bit more sparing about the word 'great'. A much over used word in my opinion. |
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Onred thing that aint open to debate is the ratings these days.As much as i respect all Gold Cup winners,i cannot have any of the current crop better than Burrough Hill lad over the Gold Cup trip.
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