There are hundreds of horses that have run of "fast" ground with no problems, but yet the moaning losers get the headlines and the ass licking from press and COC.

The tracks are probably being rated correctly jose using that method.

You are comparing an apple to an orange and that will lead to conflicting results.

If Bart's asking for watering for some of his osses & wanting it left alone on other occasions he's no different to the trainers Ger Lyons referred to over here in that they all want it tailormade for them & their horses.......
Strict guidelines would stop all of them spouting their nonesense because they would all know where the line in the sand was......

Good 3 described as an ideal track
Good 2 described as a firm track

These roughly equate to a GS reading between high 8 and 11 and in this country this surface condition would be described as GF to Firm

These roughly equate to a Penetrometer reading of 5 on Singapore scale and a description of Good, most speed, low injury potential


No one should be surprised at track records being broken when the surface condition is given as above

Numerous races have been held at Ascot straight course when the reading was given as 11 early morning

Take into ET and you probably have had numerous races run on higher than 11 with no problems except for COC's producing "loose on top ground" , but yet we keep getting told this is unsafe.

How can it be unsafe when the evidence contained in numerous past performances tells you otherwise.

You'd wait a long time for 'sensible consistency' over here Jose...
Brains out, taps on is the cry over here......

Oh, while we're at it, Mr Linley's been doing some graft.......

Wetherby cleared to continue racing
By Jon Lees2.16PM 23 OCT 2009
RACING is clear to continue at Wetherby on October 30 after a BHA review of events at the last meeting at which four horses died concluded there was no reason for the fixture not to take place.

The authority, which reviewed reports from its course inspectorate, the racecourse vet, stewards and the Wetherby management while also commissioning a firm of sports turf agronomists, as well as holding discussions with representatives of trainers, jockeys and the RSPCA, said nearly all the feedback on the state of the course had been positive.

As a result it had concluded "there is no reason why racing at Wetherby should not go ahead as programmed".

Richard Linley, senior BHA inspector of courses, said: "The trainer and jockey feedback in the run up to, and on the day of Wetherby's last fixture, was really positive. There have been no calls whatsoever from their representative bodies to suspend racing.

"The track continues to look in good condition and we'll continue to liaise closely with the racecourse ahead of next Friday."

Wetherby hosts two days of racing next week, the second of which features the Bet365 Charlie Hall Chase.
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"while also commissioning a firm of sports turf agronomists"

Mmm, an interesting development?
Do they not know themselves what safe ground looks like?????

Anyone remember the ATR watering debate?

"WE KNOW"
says Mr Linley..........Yes, of course you do.

Stop typing by Latpop screen Light and put on your specs Empty imho

Is that on the RP website JJ ?

Ok jj. If he doesnt publish it to the rp blogsite then the rule is it has to be c and p to this thread even if it is going over old ground ( so to speak ) :p

I wish Wetherby well this weekend and hope that they have a trouble free meeting.

It would appear to me that as a racecourse they've now done everything they possibly can. Similarly, I'm not sure what more the BHA could have done either.

I can remember an NH meeting at Killarney in the summer, and sadly I think there were 5 casualties in the one afternoon. The course was routinely inspected and it was dismissed as "just one of those things that happens with jump racing"

Without wishing to sound flippant in any way, I think what occured at Wetherby's previous meeting is also "just one of those things".

We'll know more after the weekend but I do hope it goes well for them.

Lads, feel free to tell me if I am wide of the mark here, but to me, this leaves a sense of bewilderment.......


Stars plates to earn money for Malton appeal
By LeeMottershead3.04PM 20 OCT 2009
A PIECE of racing memorabilia of the very highest order will be up for grabs on October 30 when a set of Sea The Stars's racing plates is auctioned for the benefit of the Malton Fire Disaster Appeal and Racing Welfare.

The authenticated plates, generously donated by the superstar horse's connections, are being billed as the premier lot at the annual All-Party Racing Group Dinner, at which some of the most powerful figures in Westminster and racing politics will come together in the name of charity.

The House of Commons event, which is being organised by Racing Welfare, will also play host to the auctioning of a picture of Sea The Stars signed by trainer John Oxx and jockey Mick Kinane.
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Now I know full well that it's nice of them to have made a donation like this, BUT, in view of them just announcing that the horse will cover ONE HUNDRED & TWENTY mares in his first season at Gilltown Stud, at 85k a covering, would it not have been even 'nicer' if they'd said they would let him have one extra 'jump' & give that to the appeal?
It seems 'in racing' we have to doff our caps whatever immenseley wealthy people tip up to 'charity' even if it is a thirty five quid selection of racing plates?

As for this 'all party' racing group dinner...........the mind absolutely boggles at the likely agenda.......

I'm afraid it's life today. Like Terry Wogan (before he was exposed) trousering a 75k fee for telling us to get our pockets emptied for Children in Need.

Be interesting to know who asked for or offered the gift, given that the owner is overseas based.

Doesn't happen does it......
Chuck the plebs a set of old silks or something & let em have an auction.....Might get us in the paper?

All a bit sour for me this....

& if I was screaming like a whining, insignificant little b!tch, desperate to be noticed, but with nothing to contribute to any sort of horse racing talk, I'd probably sound like you Holders, ;-)
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Anyways, back to issues for serious people to consider.....

Here's some proof Paul Haigh was spot on about the Post.
Unbelievable that they can seriously give room on their website to blatent 'articles' like this promoting such scandalous bets...

Stars stud decision triggers flood of specials
By Racing Post staff
5.47PM 27 OCT 2009 FOLLOWING Tuesday's announcement that Sea The Stars was booked to cover Zarkava at the Aga Khan's Gilltown Stud, Ladbrokes offered odds of100-1 the pair would produce the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe winner of 2014.

After paying out to Sea The Stars backers all season, Ladbrokes spokesman David Williams said: "If we thought we'd seen the last of Sea The Stars emptying our satchels we might have been too hasty.

"His career at stud is now very much on the betting radar."

Paddy Power offered 20-1 the first offspring wins any British Classic, including the Derby or the Oaks. The firm seem aware that it is not easy to breed a champion regardless of bloodstock, as they alsooffer 6-1 the first born fails to win any race.

Ladbrokes Sea The Stars specials: 4-1 to sire a 2014 British Classic winner, 16-1 to sire 2014 Derby winner, to sire 2014 Arc winner, 100 a three-year-old out of Zarkava by Sea The Stars to win 2014 Arc

Paddy Power Sea the Stars and Zarkava offspring specials: 5-6 to be a colt, to be a filly, 6-1 not to win any race, 12 to run over jumps, 20 to win any British Classic, 33 to win the Arc, 50 to win the Triumph Hurdle

William Hill special: 12-1 any of Sea The Stars' first crop of three-year-olds to win a British Classic

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Little wonder no reporter would put his/her name to it.
"Bookmakers tipping sheet" eh........

"After paying out to Sea The Stars backers all season, Ladbrokes spokesman David Williams said: "If we thought we'd seen the last of Sea The Stars emptying our satchels we might have been too hasty"

F/O !

""His career at stud is now very much on the betting radar."

Of course it is David, until the owner of the first born finds out it CAN run & you offer him a pony at 16/1 when he wants 2k on.....
Pathetic!

Another little going stick gem from haddock ;

GOING: GOOD (Good to firm in places; bend out of back straight watered) (GoingStick: Hdl 6.2; Chs 6.5). (Sunny intervals max: 17°C 63°F)

What is this really going to be today ?

G/f in places, crikey they are taking the stick down to new lows when its reading 6.5 on the chase ciurse

7.2 on hurdles course JC, those firmer bits are on the map on turftrax, not many of them

I'm sure Killard Point appreciated the watering of the bends - nearly slipped up.

Although not ground related in as much as the going side of matters this could actually be ground breaking :)

The Guardian is the source.

Behind blacked-out windows and closed curtains, racecourses have found a new way to plug the holes left by the collapsed corporate hospitality market. In exchange for a fee, which can be impressively large in some cases, many tracks now hire out rooms to in-running gamblers seeking an edge over those betting from home.

"Everybody's at it on course," one professional in-running punter said this week. "The on-course bookmakers, the guys with ear-pieces who are on the phones to their mates back home, the press, punters with hi-spec mobile phones that can run off 3G and Wi-fi connections. There are more and more of them at every meeting. Everyone's trying to make a few quid."

Betfair, the online betting exchange, has allowed betting to continue during every British race since 2001. It estimates that in-running bets account for 20% of its trading volume on the average race.

Now racecourses hope to profit from in-running betting. Corporate hospitality boxes at tracks up and down the country are often full of groups of men in their 30s and 40s, each with his own laptop or computer terminal, using either the naked eye or the faster, unencoded pictures available at racecourses to make a profit.

By now most punters must be aware that they are at a vital disadvantage if they bet during a race while relying on pictures brought to them by cable or satellite, on the Racing UK or At The Races channels. In the case of At The Races, the pictures may be six or seven seconds behind the live action witnessed by those at the track.

Those who are not aware of the disparity presumably find out quickly enough through harsh experience, even though having the fastest pictures is no certain route to success.

At Lingfield last Tuesday two boxes were occupied by in-running punters while an entire suite at the rear of the building had been hired on a long-term basis by an enterprise which sub-let 'workstations' to punters by the day.

"I usually have a couple of boxes ofin-running guys," one course manager said. "They are model customers. They don't want anything more than tea and coffee and a plate of biscuits. They arrive just before the first, they leave straight after the last and they don't make a mess.

"I was approached by a guy who wanted to hire a box with wi-fi for the whole year. There would be some of our bigger days when I would have no problem getting a good price for that box but others when I would be struggling to fill it. I quoted a price for the year which covered the loss of revenue on our premium days and he said yes straight away.

"I can't see what the problem is. These aren't punters; they're professionals who don't want to bet in cash at the track. The money they are putting into the racecourse can be used to invest in other areas."

At Leicester the former Tote Credit office adjacent to the parade ring behind the grandstand has been converted into an in-running facility which, despite having been in operation for only a few months, now attracts 20 or more individual players to each meeting.

Last Monday there were two boxes occupied with in-running punters at Plumpton. One frowned and drew the curtains when he saw he was being obs-erved from the grandstand. At Kempton on Sunday, one box was occupied by "a regular in-running punter".

Courses who permit in-running punters to operate in this way risk alienating several groups. On-course bookmakers, who have paid for their pitch, may see it as undermining their business, while off-course firms, some of which sponsor races at these tracks, may also take umbrage.

Casual punters may be angered that racecourses are assisting those who seek to tilt the odds in their favour, but the legal position is unclear. A spokesman for the Gambling Commisssion said: "Consumers using exchanges or bookmakers are not prevented by the Gambling Act from using a mobile phone or internet connection to bet in-running from racecourses."

But Nic Coward, chief executive of the British Horseracing Authority, takes a different view. "This sounds like the kind of evidence of exchange customers acting in the course of a business, on an unlicensed basis, that the DCMS are very interested in," he said last night.

"Anyone doing this would fall under the Levy Act's definition of a bookmaker and should therefore be paying levy. The Gambling Commission would no doubt want to take a serious look at this."

A real minefield this could turn into JJ.