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LO Guinness, i did 5 days of Galway when i was 21, dont think i could manage two days on the lash now.
There may be some news for Clerkwatchers soon, as a meeting with the BHA may take place with The Magician, Myself and a rep from them |
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I must admit i was walking around like a blancmange on Monday morning ....
Good news, and the best of luck... |
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3rd Of December is that date we are meeting the BHA
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who is the starting line up Zilzal ?
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Sorry for the delay in replying Stu
The Magician and myself will be meeting the BHA, Jonjo has a lot of commitments at present and so cannot attend. I will try to get over as many issues on this thread that i can. |
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thanks Zil,hope everything goes ok, thought there was going to be more than just the two of you though,maybe the BHA will be disappointed with the turnout, and not offer another opportunity,keep us updated though with the meeting results though m8, could be interesting.
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This maybe a case of "less is more" in this instance.
Too many people putting too many views across, might just confuse the whole debate, and consequently scare the rabbit.. |
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That could be the positive g2dear.
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Good luck with the meeting and look forward to the minutes!
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If anyone wants a question on a topic brought up(i know, its asking for trouble!!) then put it here and i will try and ask it, time permitting as i have quite a few, to Paul Struthers tomorrow evening
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Just back from the meeting so just a quick visit, i will be getting some full answers to my questions soon , but one bit of news
If Clerks want to water selectively or EVEN a bias up, details of how much they water and WHERE must be made available to the General Public, this was told to me in no uncertain terms by Paul Struthers this evening |
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That is a deffo step 4ward Zil. Well done.
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Look forward to reading all about the meeting.
That sounds like great news, zilzal. It's quite bizare how reading such a small items of racing related news can lift the spirits. It gives the impression that someone actually does give a damn. |
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Morning all
To start with, The meeting 1st concentrated on the issue of punter representation to the BHA, Both The Magician and myself put forward the case that as the BHA were funded by the levy(and entry fees etc) at around 50-50 and being that the Horseman's group were represented on the board, therefore the Punter should be-this will be put to the board by Paul Struthers. A idea put forward by a combination of Paul and The Racing Forum would be a Two Tier punters Forum with the 1st tier consisting of 6-12 people who would put forward suggestions formulated and discussed by them and a second tier of 50-150 other forum users, the 6-12 would then meet a representative of the BHA, we suggested that the 6-12 should meet with the entire board at least twice a year as a minimum requirement. On to Clerkwatch issues I will be getting a official answer to all of the issues that i raised by e mail, i will then stick it up on here. As stated before ALL selective watering will be made public I asked for a "Lite" reading across the course,as close to racing as is possible and after the last, to reflect changing conditions and therefore give a more accurate picture of the days racing and aid transparency, which would be helpful to all sections of the industry alike-i will be getting a rely to this in due course On the safety angle it would appear that aiming for g/f ground for flat and good ground for jumps are a "Guideline" only and it is within the individual clerks remit to water as he/she seems fit, this would explain why clerks water on going stick readings lower than they have previously deemed safe to race on before. I will be getting a official response to the question of Summer jumping and the issue of why they seem to be able to race on ground and stick readings higher than flat racing when the safety angle says it should be reversed. Despite being reported in the Post that the official Handicapper, in a meeting with trainers remarked that he would be treating winners more harshly to aid " less predictable results" it would appear that he was trying to stop runners putting up winning sequences. there is no agenda within the BHA to aid less predictable results within their policy Cheers |
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Great news zil..
Apart from the minutes and issues, how did the meet go ? |
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All i got was a cup of tea..........
Thought it would have been at least a Lobster Salad :-( It went very well and subjects were heated at times, it was hopefully the start of more dialogue between racing and some of their customers. |
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Good work, zilzal. Never thought I would see the day when genuine punters had an audience with the BHA!
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Yeah good to hear, sounds like some progress is being made.
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How many from the BHA were there Zil'
A cup of tea !!! ffs. did you claim travel exes ? |
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There was only Paul in attendance mate. Its hopefully a small step in the right direction of bringing more transparency and dialogue into Racing, There is a awful long way to go yet and hopefully we can attract people with more talent to challenge issues that now have started to be discussed.
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Dialogue - the magic word..... Was interested in how you got on with Mr Struthers actually zil ?
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We got on fine, there was quite a robust exchange of views over the evening, but he comes over as a fan and a punter himself and seems a genuine guy. he's a PR guy and its his job to reflect the viewpoints of his employer some of which i dont agree with.
I believe that there will be more dialogue and it hopefully it will lead to action being taken, maybe im a little naive, but you have to keep trying and i think that there will be progress. |
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Ok zil. The reason i asked was that he comes over that way to me, just wanted your opinion as you saw him face to face as it were....
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Nice to hear things got off to a good start though.
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ttt
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well done zil.
even if only one thing gets improved it will be worth it. |
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Right , its been a week, and i hope to have the questions answered soon, for the record, they are
QUESTIONS FOR THE BHA In a article circa 2008 in the Guardian, you suggested that a scale for going stick readings would be forthcoming, 16 months later there is still none. Why is this? Re watering, if a course has felt it fit to race on a certain stick reading, why are they watering to produce safe ground with a stick reading sometimes that is way under ground that that was considered safe before considering the aim was to produce g/f ground on the flat as stated by the BHA ? We, at Clerkwatch feel that inaccurate stick readings are no good to anybody connected to the racing industry and think that readings should be taken as close to the 1st race(1 hour) and as soon after the last that can be practical. These readings could be |
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Paul e mailed me to say that understandably, they are busy with current developments
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ZILZAL - The last thing i want to be is a doom and gloom merchant but the fact that you have just received an e-mail saying that they are ' busy with other developments' says it all for me.
IMO they are just paying you and the magician lip service via there PR man and have no real intention of providing the punter with any real voice in racing . This as always been the case and i just can't see that changing anytime in the future despite all of your best efforts . I know that you or the magician will say should we just sit back and let them do what they like then ? Of course we shouldn't but i just think that the mindset of the people in charge is , ' it's only the punter sod him , pat him on the head and he will go away in the end ' . I'm sorry if im sounding cynical but thats my view on the people involved in running this sport . Despite all of the above i have written my only wish is that im totally wrong and that you both make some sort of progress with the powers that be . cc . |
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at may be the case cc, but with a senior member of the integrity team being suspended etc, i can see why they are busy at present.
One of my bugbears has been addressed in that Clerks will now have to say How much and where they have watered and make it available to the general public, if you can change a little step by step then all the work done by people on this thread will have been worthwhile, and , im a pest who wont go away that easily. I can understand the points you have made though. |
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Good work Zil :)
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Great work there Zil (& the magic man)
Let's hope this is a step in the right direction & we achieve what we want to by 'consensus' rather than by other means. |
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[i]Given that the Handicapper in a meeting with trainers(reported in the post) said that winners would be handicapped more heavily in order to provide
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Still no answer from the BHA and more ammo for the people who called me naive, oh well the gloves might have to come off soon
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Preparing a dossier on the matter zil imo ;)
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Preparing a dossier on the matter zil imo ;)
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Do we know if the aw tracks have to provide information on track preparation?
The other day there was not even an entry for Wolverhampton when there was a suspicion they would have deep harrowed due to the cold snap. Makes a huge difference to how a race will pan out and render some horses as having no chance. On the plus side there is an entry for Southwell today stating they have worked the track overnight. This type of info is really useful. |
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Agree totally mucker. Helps if you know someone who keeps records of which horses have acted on the deep harrowed stuff mind ;)
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A reply from Paul as they are working on the answers :-)
Hi Nick / John I hope all is well. Im sorry Ive not got back to you with answers to those questions yet Ive passed them on to our Racecourse Department as I simply dont have the detailed knowledge to answer them and theyve just been snowed under. Theyre working on them though. What I can confirm, however, is that we would like to invite both you and Jonjo to spend a day with one of our Inspectors of Courses. Is that something youd be interested in? We could easily sort something out in early-ish in 2010, though it might be that a day in relation to jumps and then a day in summer might work best. Do let me know Kind regards Paul |
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He must be reading this then Zil,
Track prep info very important as regards AW racing, be good if ATR could post race times too, have emailed Matt before about this, he replied,said it would be a good idea and would pass on to those involved, but nowt happened about it, maybe have to give Luke and Jason a nudge too. |