General Betting
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THE PREMIUM CHARGE MUST BE SCRAPPED
THE PREMIUM CHARGE MUST BE SCRAPPED
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Yes in very simple terms if you were a premium charge customer, and you got a win of £100 in a particular week, and paid £5 on it in commission, and had no other wins in the week and no losses in the week, then you would pay £15 in premium charge on the Wednesday.
------ actually you'd pay £17.50, as they halve commission paid to get the commission generated figure. |
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Oh yes I forgot about that. Even more annoying!!
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Frog2 said...
If you look at preplay soccer the serious problem is that the Asian bookies allow you to bet many thousands at a combined 102% in the run up to the game. Competing with this on 2% commission is only possible if your opponent is also on 2% and there is no premium charge. Without that I just cannot see any future in professionals using Betfair pre-play. Without the professional money there is way that liquidity can compete with what the Asian bookies offer. Its a real shame because in theory the exchange model should be more efficient than going through a bookie. Its just in this case the middleman (betfair) has priced himself out of the market. Betfair must be reading Frog2 post's because they are doing a trial on asian handicap betting with commission reduced to .5 % |
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I have finally figured out the commission structure which would save the exchange. (Seriously!) If I reveal it to Betfair, will they give me 60% of their profits in perpetuity?
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a post a year for over a decade - I'm guessing sun's serious.
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I give the exchange with the present PC charge 5 years max sun.Something better will come along
without a de facto monopoly. |
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Would I also be entitled to 60% of BF's cumulative profits up to now? Or would that just be greedy?
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I think a better idea would be to scrap commission for higher PC payers.
I don't see the point in charging regular and consistant winners commission. The more they take in commission the less they can take in PC. |
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Must be far costlier on all the negative advertising for Betfair than they receive from the charge itself
in their noon time Wednesday account raid. |
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i think there must be a sliding scale
5k a year pc 5 % 10k a year pc 10% 25k a year pc 20% 50k a year pc 25% 100k a year pc 30% 250k a year pc 40% 1 million a year 50% those on 5k a year can pay 60% wtf and drop that lifetime |
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anyway i happen to pay 5 yes pounds in pc last week high roller it that me
drop it it getting silly |
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risking too too much bucks i give up it cant make it pay on even money shots the swings is 40 to 60 % the killer on a silly weds
trillions to x trillions are lost in missing bets snice pc came out if there no pc betfair is king of the world i know it |
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they asking 7.5%base rate in some places and with plus 40 to 60 %%% doors are shutting which is sad as i love betfair all my life betfair is my king as i dont want to work in a dead end job
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MAYDAY THE END IS NEAR
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They are playing into the hands of the professional bookmakers. Looking at the live chat on twitter:
#ask****** what is your opinion on Betfair's premium charge imposed on winning customers? Head of Sportsbook: @onlyfoolsgamble We love it! I'm a big fan of Betfair's new high commission rates and charges. #AskP****** |
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pinnacle
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betfair must be run by plonkers.
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Looks like slide has begun for Betfair yet they just don't know it yet.
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From @SundanceKid71 “Imagine if a bettor would come and win $300K/month with you. How long would you let him continue?”
HoS: We don’t plan on stopping that kind of customer. They may quit once they’ve bought their Caribbean Island though HoS: We have players who win far more than that. ................ No talk of Premium Charges. If you make the profit you get to keep it all. There appears to be no destruction of ecosystem there. There are enough losers to pay both the winners and the bookmaker. The difference is in order to make money with a bookie you have to be a good punter. You cannot profit from hoovering and the like because they will void the bet. There is no creaming off of cash by 'traders'. Then there is the liquidity issue that the PC has destroyed. They change the commission on Asian handicaps for a trial period but the PC still applies. What serious player of AHSs would consider Betfair when there is a PC? There is no liquidity in pre-play sports markets whereas the professional bookies can offer thousands at 102% books with no commission and no pc. Betfair's share price is currently well up. But the company has morphed away from the first port of call for professional and aspiring professional players. The exchange model has now become a backwater for inplay sports. That remains popular because the commission structure still favours trading. Even that will be challenged in the future as the bookies offer it and more and more competitive prices. Those who actually want to take and hold a position will go elsewhere. Its extremely sad to see the death of the exchange model for betting. But in hindsight maybe it was always destained to fail. The unregulated use of assymetic information (particularly in horseracing markets) and too high pricing (caused in part by the huge amounts extracted by the holders of the assymetric info) has ultimately driven away liquidity. A dealer based market where price setters can see who they are playing against leads to more confident price setting thus greater liquidity. |
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The dealer based market doesnt suffer from leakage from the 'ecosystem' to 'traders' and hoovering. This means that it does not have the need to take a Premium Charge from winning position takers.
While the exchange gains no value from the information contained in the bets of winning punters a dealer based market can use this information to move to more accurate confident pricing and thus allow higher limits. Winning punters will always find a place to bet. They dont need Betfair. They are moving. Punters who won before Betfair will continue to win. The only people that will utimately suffer are those traders and hoovers/tracksiders who could only win on BF. Its still sad though. The end of an era. |
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Individual dealers are usually much more risk-averse than the companies they work for. So dealers will often restrict larger trades, even after moving the price to a level in their favour, to try to have a more balanced book. The idea of dealer based markets having higher limits does seem a stretch to envisage.
At the end of the day, there is probably more money in being a top dog, offering bad value to many millions of recreational players, than there is in running an exchange. Whether Betfair have the ability savviness-wise to really take on the other big players over the long run, is open to question. |
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it is probably too late for betfair to scrap the pc charge .
they won't want to lose the income it generates for them and the embarrassment it would cause by backing down . they may change the charging structure but it would still be the same as pc imo . when purple makes a push next year it may gain some pc payers and probably alot of new customers , but as pc payers supposedly cost betfair , maybe the vacation of pc payers will help betfair to churn more in commission through the non pc payers , so what they lose in pc might be made up by non pc payers earning more in commission for betfair . only betfairs accountants will know what is and isn't a profitable outcome . if they are worried by purples push in the next year or so , they have a choice of absolutely sqaushing purples efforts and keeping there dominance as the only exchange by removing pc as there is no other reason for anyone to use purple imo but to not pay more in commission . but if they are going to go head to head , they may be playing a dangerous game that might not need to be played . i see purples matched ammounts on horse racing has increased quite alot since i last looked ( last looked 1-2 years ago , was about 60k , now abou 150k ) and this is without any effort from ladcrookes ( i know figures are calculated differently ) . is the gamble worth it betfair ? maybe it is , only the accountants will know . |
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From the Bet Angel blog
“In February we completed the acquisition of the **** betting exchange and are making good progress in developing it as a standalone business. We are on track to introduce a Ladbrokes exchange product to run alongside our existing fixed odds sportsbook early in 2014, creating a more comprehensive and strategically differentiated sports betting offer for customers. |
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Purple will be right at the top of their game next year.About 80-85% there now.
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IMO Purple discourage market makers by using tighter odds increments.
I see no difference in 1% profit and paying 50% PC and 0.5% profit with no PC, which would be the case if Purple was as busy as Betfair. And many market makers will not be on 50% as they have not won 250K. |
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Have i missed some important news from ****??
because despite ladbrokes taking over and promising the earth ie more markets and more importantly, lots more liquidity in running, i havent seen any change. Why is everyone confident this will change?? |
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Why is everyone confident this will change??
I don't think there are, really. Pmbets is evangelical about them, but that, I suspect, is because he works there. |
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Purple 80-85% there.
More like 8-85% not there. |
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Perhaps he was refering to his personal activity.
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Ladcrooks don't know anything about betting. Accounts don't last very long with them, they just want people betting 10 team multiples. I doubt they'll be able to do anything with bet daq. Try matchbook exchange that's much better than bet daq.
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You mean the site where you can take control of all the accounts funds just by hacking person's email and requesting a new password?
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^ That doesn't sound very good. Get some PC security and take some steps to make it as hack proof as possible.
My total charges now at 22%. I still don't understand it, a betting exchange where you're not allowed to win. Do they add the cross matching skim to the total charges - no I didn't think so. Does betfair pay premium charge on it's sportsbook winnings as it's "taking money out of the ecosystem" - no I didn't think so. |
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The total charges figure of 20% is misleading as if you pay £10 in commission the commission generated figure in the pc portal only shows half of it which is £5.
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Regarding MB, there shouldn't be even a option to request new password by email.
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Place one bet during the week and win £500 and pay commission of 5% which is equal to £25.00.
On the premium charge portal that would be total charges of £12.50 Total charges 2.5% Premium charge applied = (500 x 20%) - 12.50 = 87.50 In this scenario you pay 87.50 + 25.00 = 112.50 = 22.5% This is not 20% premium charge but 22.5% they take. |
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Purple will be commission free for all 12:45 sat prem games this season
The liquidity has picked up there on the match odds market on the recent games still a long way to go but things are definitely improving. |
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Betfair has become a standing joke nowadays.Every Wednesday they raid all the PC players accounts.
It beggers belief that this place isnt empty by now.This is ,my last year on Betfair. Most of my business is elsewhere.I will miss all of you lads. Just remember you are all playing for play money not real money. As if you start to win Betfair will take their 60% tax every wednesday and you will be still left with all your bills you pay(PC connection,electric,formbooks,video replay subscriptions,stationary,valuable time,plus the standare comission that this joke company charge you) INSIDER INFO:- You will never win in the long run on Betfair. |
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If betfair totally scrapped the pc then any other exchange (including the purple one) could echo all of betfair's liquidity and hedge all bets taken into a 2% betfair account (as in smarkets). The best you can hope for is they add another 50 layers of complexity to their already ridiculous commission system so that pre-off gamblers aren't affected by pc's. Nothing betfair do though will ever bring back the mugged and the exodus certainly won't be slowed by letting the muggers go back to a free lunch.
Their CEO made a success of his previous firm by treating losers like family and winners like vermin. What does he have to offer an exchange whose MO is the exact opposite. The answer is nothing. All betfair's eggs are going into the sportsbook basket and they're getting as much as they can out of the exchange before it goes belly up. |
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Betfair share price is flying. £9.75 a share right now. Well above what was offered for the takeover. Management can relax.
Everything is resting on a second tier recreational sportsbook being a success on a platform originally designed to professional punters to bet amongst themselves. |
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I emailed them 2 days ago and finally got a reply.
Total commission generated is half of the commission paid plus half of implied commission on losing bets, calculated by the formula = (commission paid + implied commission) ÷ 2. Implied commission is 3% of player losses where players make an overall loss on a single market Notice how "implied commission" is 3% and not 5% and then halved. They really don't want anyone winning on the exchange and instead the money going around in circles. If you do win you have to pay a huge amount in tax. 22.5% is staggering. |