I'd love to see Bet d-a-q offer more different markets on cricket, especially for the bigger games, such as session runs etc.

I really hate PC, I managed to lose 3k last week but now I have to think twice about every bet I place because it's inevitable I will hit PC if I carry on arbing the way I am.

I can't get on with it like I used to which is infuriating and I'm not going down the multiple ID route as I don't think it's worth the hassle. Got to complete a rollover with a bookmaker then I'm packing this in from full time.

you're an arber,nobody feels sorry for you, infact you're one of the main reasons this stinking PC is here in the first place.

Arbers find the best prices from the various bookmakers and bring them to the exchanges. It's up to the people betting on the exchange to want to back the winning ones. There's mainly only losers left on the exchange because of PC. My account was 11k up a month back, that's ridiculous - Betfair is a place for losers. Winners not welcome on the exchange because of PC.

dont personally blame the flithy arber... i think they help lubricate and keep the wheels in motion on the site and if they can get a 'free bet' or lower their risk then good on them, espically if they beat the books whilst offering up potential bets to be matched.

I think the pc has actually made it alot more difficult / less attractive for the arber, who gets hammered if he wins on here but loses with the books, little or no profit overall but pc on wednesday. Its just not worth the risk for me anymore unless the trade is a massive one. Its lovely if it happens the other way around but then you risk getting closed down by the firms.  But as a result... and it all mounts up... less money is matched on here and More money potentially being arbed at d-a-q now. (whether or not its taken is another story)

I personally think the cause of the pc is purely down to greed shown by those in charge of this once great company. I initially bought into the 20% is needed to get more players bla bla bla...bullcrap-  i didnt mind paying, i thought i understood... but that to me now...was aload of rubbish. 

They noticed that some of the traders / gamblers / fast pic lads / courtsiders who were risking their own money lets not forget...and together winning more than betfair were making and said... we'r not happy with just our tens of millions in commission any more... we want some of your winnings too.

Instead of trying to make it more difficult (for the courtsiders / fast pic merchants) who they said were draining the system too quickly and blaming or improving the newbies through education... they seem to have implemented very little to combat these groups and appear to be happy to brand all winners the same and take their weekly cut. Instead of trying to ensure the money deposited here is played through many many times by many different users before being taken out (if taken out at all)... their appear happier if a 60% humpback whale comes along, gobbles up everything aslong and they get their large cut quicker.

i hate the pc charge, i find it very un-fair at 20% and only just manageable. At 40-50-60% im amazed anyone continues on here once reaching that level especially if their not a courtsider??? or fast pics guy with a bit of an edge. 

I won 25quid one day last week on d-a-q and was so much more excited by that than the few hundred i won on the same market on here.

All loyalty i once had has long -long -long time ago.. gone. Along with my 45k pc charges to date, and i imagine there must be loads of other peeved off...small time market makers like myself that feel like i do...that would easily/ could ...and worryingly would love to jump ship if a given viable opportunity now came along as a result of these last few years of pc. 

I hate what the company has become and 5yrs ago i could never have imagined staying this.

my friend who has used betfair for years and pays pc emailed betduck to ask if they had any plans to improve betduck .
he got a reply along the lines of " they want betduck to be bigger and better than betfair and have a few things coming in the next few months "


what will happen imo though is that if betduck tries to lure users and take on betfair it might dilute both markets which is no good for anyone .
so this might not be good news .

'non-skilled based edges'.......generic bs

so even if they struggle a bit right now, one thing betfair should absolutely not do is read in it's own forum

I agree Bosman 100%, you summed it up perfectly.

It is true there would be very little loyalty to this place. I have moved every single possible thing I can do elsewhere apart from the inevitable in-play liquidity issue in certain markets. If that was replicated elsewhere at a fair deal, I would be out the door the very same day and I think that is true of pretty much all "long-termers" on here.

Once again the "guesser" completely misses the point

My tuppenceworth : the PC was brought in on the understanding it was to be used for promo's etc to get new customers in and keep the exchange rolling over. People may have disagreed but that was what was said. But of course betfair now take this money from exchange users to promote betfair, bring customers to "the" site where the exchange is hidden and direct them onto the sportsbook. From the viewpoint of an active exchange user, the sportsbook isn't even a cousin despite the branding, it's a direct competitor to the exchange and exchange users. It's no different to WH or BetTSF.

Something isn't right about that.

JTC is absolutely correct about joe punter not caring who matches him but he's missing the point that if the market makers etc who put the money up to be matched aren't making a profit, they'll **** off and there will be nothing here but tumbleweed in all but big markets. If he thought about why some people spent a lot of time on here doing boring clickathon's like a job it IS because it's like a job, it's to try and make a £ profit, and if they aren't making that £ theyll do something different.

A little of track, but related, question - does anyone know what's the lowest amount someone could win from BF trading/betting and start to pay the PC?

Unfortunately the sportsbook is clearly the bit of betfair that is sponsoring Talksport's match commentaries, as the odds he just announced were clearly not the current exchange odds. He told us all to go to www.betfair.com for more details which would obviously direct the poor unsuspecting punter to the sportsbook

I'd imagine it's just PC calc is to make make min paid to BF 20%, allowance is £1000, so £5000 of winnings uses up allowance, but if winning you are paying commission so that's pushes the figure up a bit towards £6k, so that sounds about right.

But they might find that if and when a genuinely better product comes along (whether offered by Ladsdaq or not) the collapse will be sudden and violent rather than gradual and repairable.

+1

Betfair's share price has been exceedingly strong over the last couple of months.Is this due to the Sportsbook being very popular(despite reservations on the forum) and generating significant revenue,the shares being previously undervalued or the Betfair marketing team putting up a smokescreen which hides the true picture.Certainly,the concensus on here would suggest the share price is way too high.What are your thoughts on the present share valuation,please.

Betfair's shareprice has been doing very well. Over 50% is now owned by institutional investors. Sellers include founder, Andrew Black, and original investors like Richard Koch.

If the people that run the company for the initial years during its huge popularity and growth are selling I am not sure I would want to be a buyer.

Exchange markets bring in 12x the revenue of the sportsbook.

The question is whether the application of IT and access to various sources of information e.g. experts, modellers, quants, crowds can make some form of bookie proprietary price-finding as efficient as that of a pure exchange. If this is the case, then the best bookmaker model will be sharp prices, formed by info. from as few winners (or as little money) as poss., w/ exclusions for some winners.

If not, I can't see that the best place to bet (at least on multi-runner markets) won't be some form of exchange.

It probably won't be bf since they no longer understand or believe in the exchange model.

Another major problem with the strategic potential of exchanges may be they really only appeal to the " serious" punters, by that I mean the aspirational, motivated to succeed ones.
And there just may be a lot fewer of those types than you might like to think there are.
The business of making a living from gambling is of no or little interest to the large majority of society.
The commentators on here obviously do not largely fall into that majority and thus find it very hard to understand why the exchange model is not growing exponentially as they think it can and should.

You'd like to think so rcing, but again probably only when you are betting seriously are such price differentials of major interest.
If you are a small time bettor punting a couple of quid, without real thought or reason, on a 16/1 chance, what do you care if you could get 22/1 on BF or perhaps even more elsewhere.
Is it worth all the time and effort for the average recreational punter to look around and have different accounts at different betting sites to access better odds if and when they show up.
They just want a quick, easy punt which, at least on a 16/1 shot, they don't seriously expect to win.
Unbelievable to perhaps both you or I, but maybe closer to the truth than we both like to think.

I would presume that most recreational punting revenue comes from punters betting on favourites in major events, and the price differentials in these markets are usually too minimal to be of real interest to the average, lazy punter.
I think too much of the argument on here in favour of the exchange model ( all of which I agree with btw) comes from those who punting motivations are way different from the average punter.
They are assuming that others are looking for the things they are looking for, but alas that is probably not the case, at least on a widespread basis.
However, I personally still think ( or at least hope) that the average punter one day will revolt against the unbelievable practice of banning winners, as the major bookies do, and then the exchange model could really exhibit its true appeal and novelty.
I can't believe the press is as quiet as it is on this essentially unfair, and immoral imo, business practice.