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General Betting
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THE PREMIUM CHARGE MUST BE SCRAPPED
THE PREMIUM CHARGE MUST BE SCRAPPED
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Replies: 2,082
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Her majesty should take her award back.
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One word jumps out from frog's extract to me: FOCUS. Invest in a company without it at your peril.
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Gross PL £ 70.20
Commission Generated £ 2.30 + Other Charges £ 0.00 + Total Charges £ 2.30 Total Charges % 3.27 Max possible Premium Charge £ 11.74 Premium Charge [pre-allowance] £ 11.74 Available allowance £ 0.00 Premium Charge Applied £ 11.74 Remaining allowance £ 0.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! = worse odds than Joe Coral BF 7/1 really means 5/1 , after you have made £6000 profit |
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#Because hover over a 7/1 its 6/1 anyway before charges , all advertising , i've done it myself with friends and people i talk too about gambling , i say 'why do you go to the bookies when BF offers better odds', never do that anymore = me alone would have gained more custom for them , times us by all the people we tell times them with the people they would tell & so on, BF has a machine gun honed in on there own feet.
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MasterTS, I used to go to quite a lot of trouble and go quite in-depth with some friends of mine, to help them to see the value in using this place over others.
That seems like ancient history now. I find myself nowadays going into the same level of detail, to show them how to avoid this place in almost all instances. |
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BF sent me this: Sorry at this time there no plans to make any changes to the premium charge. But if there is to be in the future you will receive an email from us outlining the changes
I think maybe our (the so called 2%) only option is too leave or not bet at all on BF , and when the next 2% read our posts they do the same until they see the money go because lets face it , its all about the moula. |
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The share price has now started to deflate.Anyone in on the IPO is still nursing a massive loss.
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There was a big sell off today:
http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2013/09/25/betfair_investor_cash_out/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter News today that Balderton Capital ‘cashed out’ it’s remaining investment in Betfair. An RNS notice appeared today showing that Balderton had sold 4,227,170 shares bringing their holding from 4.04% to 0%. The significance of this is that Balderton were one of the original investors. To quote their website: - “Balderton’s original investment in Betfair was made in 2000 and it remains one of the largest institutional shareholders post the listing. The partners have been actively involved in the development of the business since its formation and Tim Bunting served as chairman in 2006.” Richard Koch also lowered his holding again by selling another 1m shares. I’d have to say I’m not surprised to see people selling after the run up in price, but seeing Balderton completely cash out was a surprise. |
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Great news for anti PC campaigners!
Just heard that they will be exempting all rugby markets from PC as of next Monday. I gather that it is an open ended trial. |
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Just Rugby Union, not League, btw.
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Strange choice of sports if true 1.01 layer
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Not got any figures but the drop off in liquidity has been quite dramatic. Must also be partly due to the fragmented coverage with Sky/ESPN last year and BT getting the gig this year.
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How many of the "480" have Rugby Union as their biggest sport? I'd put my spread at 0-2.
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They should just scrap it on all "pre-off" events and liquidity would improve across the board.They can afford to leave it for in-running just now because they have a strong hold on the market until quack get their act together.
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I don't want to sound too cynical but this trial really just shows their mentality of milking every penny in every way possible until they start to earn less because markets dry up, so they throw a bone at the problem, and gage at what point people will start spending again and exactly what the tipping point is for max profit for themselves.
In other words, its still 100% about profit and 0% about customer value. That kind of business mentality isn't going to work in the future, it is an old-outdated model that will sink sooner rather than later. You have to create win-wins in the modern business marketplace or people will go where its available, as soon as it becomes so. This "more profit at all costs" approach just alienates the customer base and ultimately sinks the ship. If they are under the impression that most people don't see it, or their actions are somehow not transparent, they are being very naive. |
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I suspect you're right funkymonkey. I'm glad it's being trialled all the same. Let's hope it proves successful, so it may be extended to other sports.
I hear it's to run until June 2014. |
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For me that just shows they don't know what they are doing. Really disappointed. 5% comm here, 7% there, PC charge here, but not on Rugby Union. They need to get a life. They aren't the be all and end of all betting and there are other better places to bet where you don't get taken for a ride.
I might have to send them another abusive email telling them exactly what I think. |
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1.01 Layer
I hear it's to run until June 2014. so another way to look at this could be that it wont even be reconsidered on any other sports until June 2014 at the very earliest and so maybe this is just a ploy to shut people up for another 9 months while they claim they are 'investigating the problem' who, me, cynical?  |
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Would it not benefit all involved if they had a fair and reasonable pricing structure so as to attract and retain customers. Is that too simple an idea or are betfair trying to milk the charges for as much as they can.
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I would like to thank Betfair for introducing the PC charge.Now I am earning more money away from Betfair
than I did with Betfair.If the PC charge wasnt introduced I would have never wandered away from here. A few minutes ago race 1 laurel US racing £80 was matched for the full race.If I was not charged up to 60% PC charge +many other charges I pay on top form services top internet connection etc etc ,than I would have provided at least £600 extra liquidity to this one race.Thennnn therace after and so on.Now I provide next to nothing. It's really good news to finally see the betfair stockk deflating.I give this company 5 years max. |
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Strange company--They make a decision concerning PC but can't be bothered to email all PC payers.
Similar to the 1.5% on Asian Hadicaps. If it wasn't for this forum,I'd still know nothing about the change. 1.01 Layer. If in a week you lose £1k on rugby and win £1k on other sports and the commission generated is £50 in each case. Does the £1k loss still count against the win? Does both £50 count as commission generated? |
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it's a little bit 2 faced of betfair to scrap PC on certain markets to attract players/market makers , but to leave other markets as they are . either scrap PC for all markets or dont .
it's having your cake and eating it imo . |
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i'm curious what exactly they are attempting to prove here...
... for example, what if liquidity does NOT improve after removing the premium charge on Rugby does this mean that the premium charge is not what is damaging liquidity? or does this mean that the damage, once done, is not so easily undone? |
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jml, I've not received my email yet either, I was on the phone to them about another matter and they told me.
I don't suppose we can be wholly sure of their motives but, despite the understandable cynicism given their past treatment of customers, I do believe this is a positive step. Whether it's in the right direction or not is another matter. Personally, I think they've got it wrong. The problem should not be viewed on a sport by sport or market by market basis, it should be viewed on a customer basis. The PC itself is flawed and remains unchanged. I suppose if it proves a resounding success, it will increase pressure on them to scrap the PC altogether, rather than tinker with the numbers to make it fairer for some customers. What they need to avoid at all costs is the public relations disaster and erosion of trust that came about with previous changes. This piecemeal release of information and choosing a sport that not many people bet on is not the best of starts. Still, well done Betfair! You made a decision. |
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1.01 Layer
I suppose if it proves a resounding success, it will increase pressure on them to scrap the PC altogether Will it? Or will it give them more confidence that they can keep the PC and just tinker around the edges, and not have to worry as much about long term liquidity damage since they can undo it easily with a short PC 'holiday' on whichever markets need a boost? I suppose from our point of view as customers it comes down to trust in betfair... which seems to be in short supply these days |
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Hi
We have taken the decision to remove Premium Charge from all Rugby Union bets you place on The Exchange which settle before midnight on 2nd June 2014. This includes all markets pre-play and in-play in all competitions both domestically and internationally. This does not apply to Australian or New Zealand customers. This is effective from now so any bets placed this week will be included in this. Your Premium Charge statement will include all rugby activity as normal but you will receive an account credit on Wednesday (typically around midday) for any rugby union Premium Charge generated in the previous week. As a result, this PC exemption will not cause any detrimental effect on future PC payments. If the trial proves to be a success, we’ll look to extend it in to summer 2014. At the moment we have no further news regarding Premium Charge on other sports. Thanks James James Ellis Premium Accounts Manager |
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As it's in the form of a credit on PC generated, it sounds like any losses would be included in the PC calculation for other sports.
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Its not going to take much to make it a success. the matched odds on ALL 3 tomorrows rugby premiership matches totals £125 to date.
Betfair's Rugby seems dead to me. Obviously little chance of any other changes to PC before June 2014, so like others said, its just a tactic on Betfairs behalf to make out they are doing something. Very similar to the commission reduction on the Asian markets. They look like they are trying to attract customers back, but in effect they are giving very little to so few. A gimmick. |
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1.01 Layer Did you recieve the same e-mail?
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Yes, jlm. About half an hour ago.
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This applies to everyone or just to this one player? There was a thread on here a while ago about transaction charges being stopped. I was being charged them up until the point I emailed and got them changed on my account.
It appears that the policy is one of targeted 'price deals' done under the table rather than an upfront change for everyone all at once. This 'deal' applies until June 2014. Its on a very small number of markets. I don't see how any of this helps rebuild trust in the company and helps gamblers make long term plans. If I decide to get involved in a market it will usually take six months or more for me to get the systems in place to play. It doesnt make sense to invest the time if Betfair have a track record of moving the goal posts every five minutes. |
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Seems to apply to all PC payers, frog.
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As it's in the form of a credit on PC generated, it sounds like any losses would be included in the PC calculation for other sports.
It would be nice to get some clarification on this. Wouldn't want to get hit with a nasty surprise |
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Just got it, curly:
We will look at it as if Rugby Union didn’t exist so no your Rugby losses don’t go against other sports. So much for the high risk strategies I was planning |
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Yep, spent an age in the shower just now as was going through permutations in my head!
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Stop Press!! Another email:
Scrap that, your losses WILL do against your other sports. |
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Does this market become arb potential to get rid of PC charges? If you win on Betfair you dont pay pc if you lose your PC is offset?
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No email here,but I do have another scenario.
Week one win £1k on rugby, lose £1k on others. Week two win £1k on others. If all that happened in one week you'd pay no PC. But over two weeks since you paid no PC in week one there can't be a rebate. And you will be charged PC on week 2 wins. |
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Scrap that, your losses WILL do against your other sports.
I think they may just see a slight increase in turnover |
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The way I read it JML you'd get a credit for week 1.
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