Scrap it I say.

“And yet the animals never gave up hope. More, they never lost, even for an instant, their sense of honour and privilege in being members of Animal Farm. They were still the only farm in the whole county-in all England!-owned and operated by animals. Not one of them, not even the youngest, not even the newcomers who had been brought from farms ten or twenty miles away, ever ceased to marvel at that. And when they heard the gun booming and saw the green flag fluttering at the masthead, their hearts swelled with imperishable pride, and the talk turned always towards the old heroic days, the expulsion of Jones, the writing of the Seven Commandments, the great battles in which the bookmakers had been defeated. None of the old dreams had been abandoned. The Republic of the Animals which Major had foretold, when the green fields of England should be untrodden by bookmakers' overround, was still believed in. Some day it was coming: it might not be soon, it might not be with in the lifetime of any animal now living, but still it was coming. Even the tune of Beasts of England was perhaps hummed secretly here and there: at any rate, it was a fact that every animal on the farm knew it, though no one would have dared to sing it aloud. It might be that their lives were hard and that not all of their hopes had been fulfilled; but they were conscious that they were not as other animals. If they went hungry, it was not from feeding tyrannical bookmakers; if they worked hard, at least they worked for themselves. No creature among them went upon two legs. No creature called any other creature "Master." All animals were equal.”

Taxi for Ballabrigs...

Time it went.Too many london buses driving through the gaps in the betfair markets nowadays.
It's becoming worse every week.Not liquid at all.

It's that bad greyhound land?

Be interesting to hear if any investors enquire about this tomorrow. I remember reading concerns about it by an analyst when it first came in.

Many of us are now increasing liquidity on the purple and reducing on here.

Any indication from the CEO that Betfair will change anything with regards PC in the next six months ?

thanks frog

they'll lose far more customers at 7.5% than they have with the premium charge

i dont think anybody would disagree tbh

I've always thought Betfair introduced PC because they knew exchange betting was nearly finished, so they were just trying to milk it as much as they could before the end.

I think the end will come when we go back to a turnover tax instead of a bookmaker's gross profits tax. This is why they are pushing the sportsbook ahead of the exchange.

I hope the posts that suggest the demise of exchange betting as we know it are decidedly premature and pessimistic.

used to bet every night till the end of raceing.Now no interest at all,must be many like me.
What the hell have they DONE.WhatTHE HELL DID THEY EXSPECT TO HAPPEN WHEN SOME IDIOT THOUGHT A tax WAS GOOD FOR THEM.

Pre-play markets desperately need to have their commission reduced. I still say it needs to be commission free for those putting up prices and reduced for those taking a pre-play bet. Its a pricing gamble but I for one would massively increase turnover if the commission was reduced.

If you look at preplay soccer the serious problem is that the Asian bookies allow you to bet many thousands at a combined 102% in the run up to the game. Competing with this on 2% commission is only possible if your opponent is also on 2% and there is no premium charge. Without that I just cannot see any future in professionals using Betfair pre-play. Without the professional money there is way that liquidity can compete with what the Asian bookies offer.

Its a real shame because in theory the exchange model should be more efficient than going through a bookie. Its just in this case the middleman (betfair) has priced himself out of the market.

Betfair need to act fast.The big players used to bring about 10 new plays in a week no
with all the negative publicity they probably lose about 10 customers a week by telling people
the truth about betfair.
Winners are not welcome and we will tax you 60% of your winnings plus another say 4%
if you dare to pick a winner.

Peter Webb's blog has an interesting point on this:

One area I don’t speak that much about, but have hinted at on the blog, is value bets. I still place value bets a lot, but since the PC came in on Betfair not that much is done here. But I have noticed that the ‘weird’ characteristics you see on Betfair more recently are helping me here as well, so I have been back exploring that arena. I can win or lose up to £1m a month on value bets. While that seems a lot, to put it into perspective, with any market your edge is often very slim. So you need to ‘go large’ to make it worthwhile.

So there is a punter willing to win or lose a million a month put off by the PC. There are punters on here willing to oppose peter's bets and win or lose a million. Yet Betfair is saying 'no thanks we dont want commission on your business'.

The whole situation is tragic. One moment of madness a few years ago bringing in the PC and the exchange has changed forever.

Shareholders should be asking serious questions as to why Betfair nolonger want to take commissions on bets between professional gamblers. This is exactly what Andrew Black's idea was supposed to be all about.

Is the 20% premium charge on top of commission?

not really. it rounds up your weekly charges to 20% of gross profit. the more losers you have in that mix, the lower it goes.



I remember reading on the forum that if your account is a PC account and you stop using it for a period of time your account will cease to be PC is that correct?

no

Yes in very simple terms if you were a premium charge customer, and you got a win of £100 in a particular week, and paid £5 on it in commission, and had no other wins in the week and no losses in the week, then you would pay £15 in premium charge on the Wednesday.
22.49% for me so creeping downwards but not yet at the danger area