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oops sorry ignore that doh
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good value losers, no worries.
In my example, i was implying customer B's lay was already in the system, therefore customer A should be entitled to be filled at that price, perhaps I didnt make that clear originally. They key issue here however, is both players be matched at the SAME price with Betfait not taking chunks out of the market to line their own pockets. |
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lippy 09 Mar 06:26
Have noticed nothing untoward in any of the ozzie wallet markets i trade in, to answer a question Lippy I very much doubt this is running on any markets held on the Aussie server , I'll email the Tasmanian Gaming Commission see if they are aware of the changes. Q. Does this change raise any regulatory issues? A. As a matter of course Betfair highlights any changes to the code base or operations to the relevant regulator, in this case The Gambling Commission. Before any change was made Betfair approached the GC and explained the proposed changes in detail. |
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Soup - Are you fishing?
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Fishing? You'll have to explain.
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rusty22
but that is not happening; what it is happening is that betfair is placing bets and matching bets; in direct contradiction with its own statement: "All bets on Betfair are placed there by users who either want to bet for a selection or outcome in the normal way (back), or bet against a selection or outcome (lay). Bets are matched between people with opposing views. " A big consequence is that if you make a mistake bet; betfair will take it most of the times.. Once I mistakenly layed @55 instead of 5; no amount was matched thank god I cancelled it (the moment I did submitted it I realized the mistake I made) I was hitting the cancel all button constantly. With this new system betfair would take my 55 and cover its shameful bet with the other player (there were only 2 runners) backing it at 1.2 |
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green willow 09 Mar 10:06
There is an awful lot of bad feeling about this (imo) pick pocketing. "Will Betfair dare let this beastly robot out on horse racing ?" I get the feeling they already are using this monster on the horse racing. In the final furlong of a race yesterday I tried to lay the leader at 1.72 and was matched instantly for the full amount at exactly that price. Straight after the bet was matched the back/lay spread was 1.22/1.99 with no extra left at 1.72. I've had similar experiences on the racing recently. While this is not proof of Betfair matching with the skim scam it does seem rather odd - I've been playing the horses in-running long enough to realise something different is happening. I'd noticed the same on the tennis markets recently before reading these threads. Surprising there is not more discussion on the horse racing forum. |
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It is indeed THE END
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greediness is always the best way to end good things....
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The Exchange Model has never taken off with the High Street punter, so BF have to look inwardly to improve revenue. Any business which has little room for expansion will be forced to do that.
Ordinary Joe Punter may have heard of Betfair, but has never actually got round to trying it out. All he wants to do is nip into the bookie next door, place his bet on the paper fav, then go back into the boozer and watch the race, pint in hand. A carry out curry, watch Ant & Dec, hopefully get the legover on Saturday night. Don't think this will ever change IMHO (perhaps this will be the last straw for some and they will finally vote with their feet. Maybe not!) |
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the man marcus 08 Mar 21:52
Lucas me old china take this scenario (tennis market, no money around trying to back player B, player A trading at 1.02/1.03) i lay 60s for 10 on player B at a cost of 590, i get matched by betfair who match me with the 1.02 layer at a cost of 10 to him - i think this is correct so far but in order to get matey's 10 betfair only have to place 500 with him, so what happens to the extra 90? goes onto the next matey waiting at 1.02...your liability doesn't change, but more get matched with your money....why is this still rumbling on....its like a tabloid newspaper on here at the minute!! |
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believeinyourself 09 Mar 11:29 It would be interesting to hear the view from Bettingpromotions, being one of the big market makers on board.[i][/i] it would be interesting to see if they or IG index got advanced warning... it seems some people have been proactively given information on this |
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hazel 09 Mar 10:03
it will encourage more trap bets, as an error on one selection will now benefit those on ALL selections. this is technically true - but only an advatange for humans if you are placing trap ( or significantly undervalued bets) doing it on all or one selection is equally easy for a bot but now POEPLE can just manage trap bets on one selection, and get hit more often, provided someone else does not have such a poor value (trapp) bet on another selection becasue the individual outcome still takes priority over the book wide matching |
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Oh and some asked if this happens on market regulated by tasmania.
I doubt it - they understand gambling |
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I don't think many on here can do....as loads of conclusions are being jumped too and no answers
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luke my man, did u miss this post?
the man marcus 08 Mar 21:52 Lucas me old china take this scenario (tennis market, no money around trying to back player B, player A trading at 1.02/1.03) i lay 60s for 10 on player B at a cost of 590, i get matched by betfair who match me with the 1.02 layer at a cost of 10 to him - i think this is correct so far but in order to get matey's 10 betfair only have to place 500 with him, so what happens to the extra 90? |
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no, but you appear to have missed my answer about 3 inches up ;)
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As Lucas says he doesn't bet on these markets. He just likes winding people up.
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lol, my humblest apologies
i shall read, digest and retort after The Arsenal game |
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it didn't take long actually
goes onto the next matey waiting at 1.02 what would happen if the 1.02 layer and me were the only players in the market and the trades mentioned were the only trades placed? |
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goes onto the next matey waiting at 1.02...your liability doesn't change, but more get matched with your money....
so 90 of your liability was matched @1.02, but you win 10, not 11.8 where does the 1.8 go??? |
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Since bets are not matched between customers (how can you match 1.1 with 7.0).
it must mean that Betfair themselves match both in seperate transactions. Why is it they are allowed to beat the 5 second clock with the price waiting on the screen. |
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The 90 goes to betfair. It doesn't go anywhere else as proven by the change in total amounts matched.
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take this scenario (tennis market, no money around trying to back player B, player A trading at 1.02/1.03)
i lay 60s for 10 on player B at a cost of 590, i get matched by betfair who match me with the 1.02 layer at a cost of 10 to him - i think this is correct so far but in order to get matey's 10 betfair only have to place 500 with him, so what happens to the extra 90? goes onto the next matey waiting at 1.02...your liability doesn't change, but more get matched with your money....why is this still rumbling on....its like a tabloid newspaper on here at the minute!! ...... As I understand it there is no "extra 90" because that 90 is part of the liability to you - it always was whether under this system or the old one. It's money you stand to lose rather than win - and BF only make money out of people who win. What I don't see is how people are thinking that betfair are taking a slice of this. They only make money out of people who win - and under this system people stand to win less - more bets will get matched - but under the old system your lay of 60 for 10 would have appeared on player B back side - maybe someone would have taken it, maybe they wouldn't - but if someone had taken it then you would have someone standing to win 590 for a 10 liability but under the new system someone stands to win 500 for a 10 liability (the 1.02 layer). So the "extra 90" is purely liability - 2 different customers bets have been matched, but under the old system that 90 could (not necessarily would) have appeared as someone else's potential profit - and that extra 90 was money betfair could have potentially taken commission from. Or have I completely misunderstood!! |
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you have completely misunderstood
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'Fraid so
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it didn't take long actually
goes onto the next matey waiting at 1.02 what would happen if the 1.02 layer and me were the only players in the market and the trades mentioned were the only trades placed? ........ I think you would have 1.50 available to take for someone at odds of 60 in the back box of player B (rather than 10 as before). |
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ok Brandon - suppose the player youve laid at 60 makes a miraculous comeback and wins the match. You have to pay out 590. Betfair only had to pay out 500 to cover your bet. result: Betfair win 90. Money cant just disappear into thin air.
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Brandon. BF stated they don't hold a position so leaving something unmatched couldn't happen....in their own words.
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The following is from one of betfairs email responses :
Q. If Betfair can match across selections why arent those prices displayed in the market view? A. We believe that if a customer sees a price on the screen and they place a bet to match it they will expect to be matched at that price even if they request a worse price. We therefore expect to display prices that could be matched across selections once we have an efficient way of providing best execution across selections The bold words show that betfair do not offer best execution across selections. As soon as they correct their system this will not be a problem. Hurry up betfair. |
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Brandon--the 90(or part thereof) could be matched at 1.02.
BUT the 90 doesn't belong to either A or B. because their transactions are complete. it belongs to Betfair |
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I think everyone has misunderstood to be fair......and hence we need some clarification from Betfair, as our rumblings and arguments aren't getting us anywhere.
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Yes, sorry folks.
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Robin Ewe 09 Mar 15:58
ok Brandon - suppose the player youve laid at 60 makes a miraculous comeback and wins the match. You have to pay out 590. Betfair only had to pay out 500 to cover your bet. result: Betfair win 90. Money cant just disappear into thin air. But surely your 60 gets spread around more of the people at 1.02, hence if it wins they meet the liabilty |
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luke?
the man marcus 09 Mar 15:46 it didn't take long actually goes onto the next matey waiting at 1.02 what would happen if the 1.02 layer and me were the only players in the market and the trades mentioned were the only trades placed? |
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luckylucas - i think most people understand perfectly, and the penny hasn't dropped with you or you a trolling.
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I don't believe there is any mis-understainding. Betfair are profiting from their unbeatable cross matching system.
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luckylucas. 09 Mar 16:03
I think everyone has misunderstood to be fair......and hence we need some clarification from Betfair, as our rumblings and arguments aren't getting us anywhere. Exactly Lucky which makes you wonder what sort of company we are actually dealing with. |
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The reason betfair are not replying is because we are correct and they do not want to admit it without having a solution that gives best execution. I believe (hope) they are working on this.
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They could do it by giving all partys to the trade a better price in proportion to the overround. Ie if the bets produce 102.4% book give all parties a 2.4% better price.
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