|
By:
Today in a rugby match i submitted a back at 1.50 and was matched at 3.90!!! Are these happy days about to end?
|
|
By:
lippy is catching on as well I think.
Anyway, I have found a great way out of this for betfair as to why they didn't announce any of this. They didn't want to reveal any company secrets.... |
|
By:
Are we sure BF have not closed shop & run into the sunset? How can we STILL not have an official announcement?
|
|
By:
that's an astonishing amount of writing for an even more astonishing lack of reading cyber.
|
|
By:
Yep Lippy pretty sure in was active in the rugby today. Had a fairly large back perfectly matched where there was no money sitting there.
|
|
By:
What's probably worst of all (not that many on here would care) is that betfair now have a vested interest in offering the type of market that is characterized by a low level of fairness and integrity - the fast moving "fastest trigger finger" markets and games. Because that is where the money is. I can't look that far into the future but it doesn't look good to me. They could even get rid of the stable long term markets when they want to increase their profit margins. Well, you don't have to be rocket scientist to get a feeling of where this is going.
|
|
By:
Don
i think lippy was probably playing a super 14 game which is in the oz wallet and people think the oz markets haven't been targeted yet,possibly due to different legislation or possibly they are next |
|
By:
The plot thickens??
from http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=9185243 message #19: "I didnt think i mentioned or hinted at the multiples section in my post above making a loss, so was a bit surprised that you mentioned it. it was september when i was interviewed at betfair headquarters, they clearly told me that they had purchased a italian sportsbook a few weeks earlier and were recruiting staff for it. the position was to be in malta, so its possible they might have transferred the licence to there. they were recruiting their own customers, not only for this sportsbook, but also to trade the betfair markets with the aim of laying off bets from this sportsbook and from their multiples operation. they called it "hedging, but the business model they outlined to me was not hedging, but active trading. even the in running markets were not safe under their plans" |
|
By:
Situation:
Back Atalanta = 3.4 --- Lay Atalanta = 3.45 Back Siena = 5.9 --- Lay Siena = 9.0 Back The Draw = 1.77 --- Lay The Draw = 1.80 Back Percentage = 102.9 --- Lay Percentage = 95.7 New Bet: Lay Siena 6.0 at 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------- New Situation: Back Atalanta = 3.4 --- Lay Atalanta = 3.45 Back Siena = 5.9 --- Lay Siena = 6.0 Back The Draw = 1.77 --- Lay The Draw = 1.80 Back Percentage = 102.9 --- Lay Percentage = 101.2 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Old Solution: Back-Lay could not be matched. New Solution: Lay-Lay can be matched. You have to calculate the matching bets: Lay Atalanta: (10 / 2) * (3.45 - 1) = 2,04 Lay The Draw: (10 / 2) * (1.80 - 1) = 6,25 Lay Siena 6.0 at 2 will be matched by the two bets Lay Bergamo 3.45 at 2,04 and Lay The Draw 1.80 at 6,25. |
|
By:
think you got your backs and lays confused...
|
|
By:
I am worried its true. Of course i am , any change brings uncertainty and a possible end to the golden egg.
Still dont think we have seen any 100% evidence that betfair have been skimming though . If they have im sure they wont continue to do it. It could bring very serious repurcussions on their heads. They may have a near monopoly but that could quickly change, all it would need would be the biggest players and providers of liquidity to migrate to another exchange and the rest would follow. Im sure betfair are just looking to find a way to have more bets matched up rather than a way of skimming markets. That skimming would of just been part of the testing. Why they have to test with us as unknowing guinea pigs dows raise some integrity issues however. |
|
By:
Have noticed nothing untoward in any of the ozzie wallet markets i trade in, to answer a question
|
|
By:
they have, I tried it myself, read my posts..
they are matching bets instantly, leaving no choice to cancel mistakes; with no time delay, and in clear contradiction with its own statement: "All bets on Betfair are placed there by users who either want to bet for a selection or outcome in the normal way (back), or bet against a selection or outcome (lay). Bets are matched between people with opposing views" and apart from all that they are doing it without saying absolute anything, complete silence from their part...I guess they have a lot of people doing damage control in the forums, but no official statement yet.. |
|
By:
Well if they have been doing it in the australian rugby games then that is very encouraging, have had one of my best weeks ever on the super 14
|
|
By:
Why not come and trade the cruaseders game that starts in ten minutes , see if notice anything
|
|
By:
cyber 09 Mar 00:19
"Betfair aren't scamming or slicing profits from anyone here, they are simply matching more bets by using this system. I would imagine this was introduced around the same time as the 'Keep Bet' function was unveiled. And why was the Keep Bet function released? Because every time Betfair cancel unmatched bets, they effectively cut the amount of commision they receive by removing potentially matchable bets from the system, whereas now they will get matched, which will appease punters as they have got the bet they wanted, and Betfair get the commision they want - along with this change, which matches someones bet at the price they wanted... Betfair are in an enviable position in this market, and this is highly unlikely to change. They will not be risking their position in this market, which is only going to expand in future years/months by pocketing the 27p leftover by someones bet that 'could' have been matched at a better price if Betfair had not matched the bet at the price the user originally specified..." You need to read up a bit more on this subject cyber. More bets matched does not neccessarily mean more commission for Betfair as a large chunk of total bets matched will obviously be trading. However their going down this road may well cause a reduction in commission profits for them as punters go to other exchanges and traders/bots find conditions much less profitable, and not worth the risk, causing them to withdraw their business. This could have a serious effect on the liquidity in markets where skimming is taking place. Oh, and it's not 27p here and there we are talking about - I'd imagine Betfair could be making more in some markets from this new set up than they do from actual commission. |
|
By:
Just wondering with the introduction of this new engine whether the latest Betfair TV campaign contravenes any ASA guidelines. The advert catagorically says all bets are matched person 2 person and not by Betfair, which at this present time is not the case. The big bookmakers adverts where closely scrutinised for less than this imo.
|
|
By:
oh to be a lawyer in betfair
only the queen has more job security |
|
By:
Betease 09 Mar 09:09
Just wondering with the introduction of this new engine whether the latest Betfair TV campaign contravenes any ASA guidelines. The advert catagorically says all bets are matched person 2 person and not by Betfair, which at this present time is not the case. The big bookmakers adverts where closely scrutinised for less than this imo. is not the case??? try explaining that in the skimming what is the problem thread!!!!!! I tried for 2 hours with no effect, the damage control guys sure work hard!!! |
|
By:
Betfair ARE matching one person to another. You could even call it a P2P betting exchange. But the markets as such are dead. No markets, no exchange.
This is not front-running. This is not "trading ahead" of customers' orders either. They are simply profiting from the inefficiencies created by themselves (who else?) and pocketing the difference. If you're going down the path of unethical/illegal behaviour you might as well do it properly I suppose. |
|
By:
Only in the UK :D
|
|
By:
Yes, all they do with this new system is make it much more likely that you are being matched for the prices you request. However, the new system will NOT give you best odds available, only the odds you request, and this is a crucial point. They themselves take advantage of best odds available, and pocket the profit. A profit that should be yours.
|
|
By:
and they are doing it INSTANTLY without 5 second delay, so any mistake in placing a bet and you are done!! , before the scam you always have 5 seconds to correct the mistake...
|
|
By:
eulerian 09 Mar 22:38
and they are doing it INSTANTLY without 5 second delay, so any mistake in placing a bet and you are done!! , before the scam you always have 5 seconds to correct the mistake... Thats not true, once the countdown started your bet was in the system , no way of cancelling until it hit market , once there if unmatched you could/can cancel. Same under new rules except there more chance it will be matched |
|
By:
Betfair are capitalizing on/exploiting our mistakes.
I think we need a new summary. |
|
By:
it will encourage more trap bets, as an error on one selection will now benefit those on ALL selections.
|
|
By:
There is an awful lot of bad feeling about this (imo) pick pocketing.
Will Betfair dare let this beastly robot out on horse racing ? |
|
By:
Got a holding reply from betfair re my email yesterday entitled 'Cross-matching below 'best execution' odds. I have removed the name of the betfair employee.
Thank you for your e-mail. I have forwarded your query to the relevant department for there attention. We will get back to you in due course with a full response. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries. Kind regards Betfair Helpdesk |
|
By:
i got the same. i suspect the answer will be the q&a that betangel have on their website! :(
|
|
By:
lippy 09 Mar 09:54
eulerian 09 Mar 22:38 and they are doing it INSTANTLY without 5 second delay, so any mistake in placing a bet and you are done!! , before the scam you always have 5 seconds to correct the mistake... Thats not true, once the countdown started your bet was in the system , no way of cancelling until it hit market , once there if unmatched you could/can cancel. Same under new rules except there more chance it will be matched What is not true? is it true or not that once my bet hit the system it is automatically matched by betfair if betfair can do the opposite bet with and instant profit?? Now, once I place a bet if I MAKE A MISTAKE my bet will always be matched. because of the arb by betfair i.e my bet will never be unmatched if betfair can make a profit with it!!! a total rip off!!! |
|
By:
Perhaps the rease Betfair are doing this is because market makers from other bookmakers are operating on Betfair, and cleaning up. Result more mug money going out of the system.
Betfair want some of this, and they may feed it back into the system for normal punters, who otherwise are been bled dry by other professional market makers. |
|
By:
It would be interesting to hear the view from Bettingpromotions, being one of the big market makers on board.
|
|
By:
acc 09 Mar 11:23 Perhaps the rease Betfair are doing this is because market makers from other bookmakers are operating on Betfair, and cleaning up. Result more mug money going out of the system. Betfair want some of this, and they may feed it back into the system for normal punters, who otherwise are been bled dry by other professional market makers. assuming that is true those bookies have an inherent risk, they trade with the 5 second rule and they are not certain that both bets are matched, maybe one of their bets are matched but not the other because it was canceled in that 5 second time frame.... Besides all that, they offer REAL LIQUIDITY to the markets, not ghost liquidity as Betfair is doing now... this is a scam, there is no other way to put it...why the silence?? why better has not make any official statement?, because they know they are ripping us off... |
|
By:
There is no risk to the bookmakers over millions of bet when they are constantly firing in overround positions.
|
|
By:
lippy 09 Mar 09:54 eulerian 09 Mar 22:38 and they are doing it INSTANTLY without 5 second delay, so any mistake in placing a bet and you are done!! , before the scam you always have 5 seconds to correct the mistake... Thats not true, once the countdown started your bet was in the system , no way of cancelling until it hit market , once there if unmatched you could/can cancel. Same under new rules except there more chance it will be matched lippy,if you make a mistake you've invariably put an extra zero in somewhere so i'd say the chances of it getting matched are very very high............1.01 in fact. |
|
By:
What must surprise betfair is that for 10 or 11 days after introducing this there was no fuss at all.
The fact is hundreds of people were noticing little strange bet returns but we all assumed it must be our mistake or we weren't concentrating Without this thread ,which is not even well titled ,we would all be still wondering why things felt slightly different. For there to be still no official statement is quite simply staggering. To have a Q and A ,that doesn't even address where currently the missing money is going,via another company that probably 0.1 % of clients have even heard of is amazing |
|
By:
I should think the vast vast majority of punters on this site havent even noticed. There bets are , in fact, matched even quicker now.
I can see the changes might have taken away a profit stream from skimmers and those that hoover up other punters mistakes, but, guess what, bad luck. |
|
By:
eulerian, from my understanding of all this, betfair ARE NOT matching any bets themselves + they've just changed their system to increase the number of ways your bet can be matched and attempt, in theory at least, to make it more efficient.
If you are trying to back player A at 3.0, you would also be prepared to lay player B at 1.50, as that's the same thing. Previously when submitting a back of 3.0 for player A, your bet would only be matched if someone was trying to lay player A at the same price, with the price of player B being academic, even if it would work out a better price for you, hence the numerous over-rounds that used to happen. Now however, it seems that once the back bet for player A has been submitted, the system will firstly try to accomodate your bet by matching someone trying to lay Player A and then if that's not completely filled, will then try to match your bet with someone who is trying to back player B (same as them trying to lay Player A). The big issue here however, is when your back of player A is matched with someone laying player B, you both get the prices you requested which quite often will NOT be the same. This mismatch effectively results in some money disappearing + effectively leaving the market. It is where this money is going that's the concern. For example, lets say your back of 1,000 for player A at 3.0 can not be directly matched with anyone trying to lay player A at the same price. However, at the same time, someone is currently trying to back player B at 1.4 for 5,000 and this is 1st in the lay queue. These 2 bets will be matched by betfair BUT at the prices both people are requesting, ie. 3.0 and 1.4 and NOT at the best price for one of the customers. The net outcome is this..... Customer A: staked 1,000 to win 2,000 Customer B: staked 2,000 to win 800 As you can see, 200 has "disappeared" and it looks like this is leaving the market and sitting on betfairs books, much to their gain. What needs to happen is BOTH bets to be matched at the SAME and the BIGGEST price. In the above example, this would mean customer A having his bet matched at the equivalent of 1.4, ie. 3.50. The end result of this outcome would then be.... Customer A: staked 1,000 to win 2,500 Customer B: staked 2,500 to win 1,000 This would mean no money is leaving the system and ending up in betfair's pockets. |
|
By:
errr why should customer a be the only one to benefit? why shouldn't customer b get some of cutomer a's 3?
|
|
By:
I remember Bert & others from Betfair doing a live Q & A session on the forum a couple of times in the past - I think this is definitely a situation where they should think about doing that again. Maybe we should use the Betfair Blogs part of the forum as a petition about this as it is uncluttered - just a thought.
|