kirk st. moritz 09 Mar 08:33


The irony is that the 5 sec delay was claimed to be there to protect ordinary punters from fast picture traders whereas you could have been forgiven it was there to encourage those very traders to provide liquidity to the markets as THEY were the ones who could place a position on both sides of the spread then cancel the side that lost the next point in tennis giving a no lose position.


This is why the big boys are kicking up such a fuss. They have been milking it on these tennis markets , fast pictures combined with offering odds both sides has allowed them to build up massive profits at the expense of those with slower pics .
That little trick may no longer work (not a bad thing) . No doubt this is why Get on massive is so opposed to the changes.

lol this is confusing, something doesnt add up...

lets try to settle this:

suppose 500 is available to back on runner A @ 1.5, nothing on runner B

you lay B @4 for 100, and are immediately matched at 4...

those who think betfair are not leeching money: how much would you expect to see available on A @1.5 after matching?

lippy,

the big boys are not kicking up a fuss because they fear their profits are going to be taken away. they are kicking up a fuss because there is an operator in these markets who does not have a delay the same way everyone else has.

the delay is a safety net for people who have offer in the market. less recognised it is safety for people inputting bets, this part of the deal has now been removed, you have a person who has all the up to date info and can remove all of your out of line bets with immediate effect. i suggest if you trade tennis, this will have already cost you many times without you knowing it.

think of the delay as a handicap now rather than protection.

why does everyone who posts here have to be under suspicion of an agenda.. or doing so out of fear of losing their profits etc. the markets were fair, they now aren't, it's quite simple.

The Betfairy 08 Mar 19:47


luckylucas: Fed into the queue at 1.24

So you're saying that there are sums of money in teh bet queue owned by nobody? What happens if it doesn't get matched?

no fed = matched

I see.

Before this new system you were never in dagner of being matched at anything below the best available odds.

With this new system, your risk being matched at odds worse than best available.

Why shouldn't this scare us?

steady there you go with the wild accusations again ;)

can you not see at all what the fuss is about ? i fear there's no hope for you.. :) good banter though.

Until we see evidence that betfair are making profits from this then the discussion is pointless.

Could be the worlds first tax on stupidity

lippy the evidence that they are pocketing the difference has already been provided by the betangel/betfair statement below

"Q. If Betfair can match across selections why arent those prices displayed in the market
view?
A. We believe that if a customer sees a price on the screen and they place a bet to match
it they will expect to be matched at that price even if they request a worse price. We
therefore expect to display prices that could be matched across selections once we have
an efficient way of providing best execution across selections."

lippy - Do you expect Betfair to come foward and start publishing figures on how much they are making from this?

lucky

200 oh fook my brains gone!!!

that means 300 has gone, either...

1. the person laying 500 @ 1.5 now has a liability of 150 - the person who layed B @4 can only win 100 so where does the extra 50 go???

2. the person laying 500 @ 1.5 got matched at a price other than 1.5 - this makes no sense!

Betfair will become bookmakers of a modern electronic era now they have the confidence to get involved in their own markets. It is to be assumed they have tested the water with the people who would normally prevent this.

As soon as the SP came in you think over-rounds here we come, spun as simple to understand to the punter ... bookmakers love over-rounds. It is interesting to consider how bookmakers glean information from the activity of their clients and then act on it by offering a bigger or shorter price based on this information. Is this possible here whereby they can learn who profits and by which method with a view to replicating this themselves .. is this what they have done .. again spun as helping the clients get matched? Are they bound to always match the same maximum volume in a match or can they make exceptions if information is available .. where does it state they wont if so?


I think people on here need to start getting the big picture however much they prefer a free market.

You're right kirk. The big shareholders want to see a profit delivered and they want to see it increase every year. Betfair have done the casino games, done the SP, done the Tote bets, done the Multiples, done the commission increase and theyve wrung every penny they can out of those changes. Now theyre looking to get involved in the markets for even more profit.

I think at some point they need to realise they cant keep growing every year. Sooner or later the profits will plateau. You cant start nicking off your own customers just to keep the profits on the up.

kirk you only need to look at how they've taken over the games site to see what their idea of the future is. Build up a client base introduce bots into the system using clients funds to ensure risk free profits.

From December 2007 Betfair has started employing its own software or robots to provide liquidity into the exchange games markets. It has been evident for some time that the activity of 3rd Party bots is essential to ensure that there is enough liquidity in the markets to provide an attractive customer proposition. For commercial reasons we have decided that rather than rely solely on 3rd party bots, Betfair will itself provide liquidity.

Now it's just a case of playing bookmaker on the site but using clients monies to ensure risk free profits when any over/unders occur. Obviously bog standard bookies are doing much the same thing making a book with client cash but they don't have the advantage of only stepping in whe there's risk free cash to be taken and charge the punters 5% commission for the privalege of using their cash.

As Johnny Rotten once said "Ever get the feeling you've been **ed? "

Robin, lots of Betfair tv adverts this weekend.

You are right there is only so much they can take out ... they need to bombard the public with adverts to go where they want to go and give the impression they are a bookmaker but without the negatives. The high street punter doesnt want to think he has to be a computer whizz to come on here. A bookmaker feel is what they need to familiarise with these punters hence the SP and new interface. Laptops are unbelievably cheap now however their target would rather have a bet with it than buy one for four hundred quid. They really need to provide high street branches where these punters can drop in and be shown 'how easy it is'. However as this shows if they do achieve this they will still take out what they can and will be a bookmaker in all but name, driven by the need for increased profits year on year. The people who provide liquidity and take money out of the market wont be at the top of their priorities anymore. It's a ruthless game.

I would just like to re-emphasise what would stop, say, analysing activity of someone who trades on possible non-triers and then adding a bit themselves in the long term. If you are allowed to be active in your own markets what is in place to stop future steps .. anything? Traditional bookmakers have been using customer information for time imemorial to modify the shape of their markets to their benefit.

no one.....people just love speculating and moaning

this means the differences go directly to bf coffers