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A few weeks ago I was in a cricket market called 'Top Australian Batsmen' that had 7 runners. There were $4 bot bets everywhere and whenever I tried to place a bet the $4 would appear in front of my bet whether it was 6 at night or 3 in the morning.
I decided to see how far I could push the $4 bot bet on the lay side towards the $4 bot bet on the back side. Every time I got out to certain odds my bet would be matched without my bet appearing on the market. What I noticed next was even more staggering. When my bets were being matched the 'amount matched on the market' changed but after about 5 seconds it returned to what it was before my bet was matched. For example: The amount matched on market was $10,000 before I placed the $6 bet and when it was matched the amount matched on market went up to $10,012. When I kept pressing refresh the amount matched on market went back down to $10,000 even though I had a matched bet in my account. This isn't the only time it's occured either. I can remember having similar problems during the 2007 AFL Season in the 'To Reach Top 8' market. |
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In the last couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of my bets matched at "impossible" odds. i.e. (and yes i've got consolidated and average odds switched off). i.e. at 3.23 and 3.17.
This would suggest that at one point I was getting matched at the other price BUT at the best odds, which makes me think about reducing the percentage I assigned earlier to this problem being some sort of software mistake.... |
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Well explained , even i understood that
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Charkitz that is, not that waster dstyle
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Sorry, anther amendment to my post:
the thing about lots of people making the same mistake is wrong. What I meant is that the fast boys know who actually won the point dammit. |
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You;ve lost us all now weatherman - you'll have to post it all again ;)
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Hope DStyle is right.
But the guys that tested it yesterday seemed to be getting matched below best price. |
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no no, I tested last night as well and it's not happening any more. I'm saying I think I saw it happen in the last two weeks.
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i.e. it worked properly and then it became a bit more cynical :|
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Can Charkitz be hired to interpret all these posts please, he seems the only one capable of simple explanation
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Getting matched at the price you asked for is not always what you want.
If they're going to release something that alters the risk profile of trading specific events, they should announce it. Now that I know about it, it will change the way I trade. I'm grateful for the discovery on this thread. It was also definitely have a negative impact on my P&L, but I know that no-one outside the world of the weatherman gives a stuff about that. |
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One thing certainly needs clarification.
I haven't paid much attention to this aspect because I simply can't believe it to be true - but some people seem to be suggesting a bet placed in-running is instantly matched while the clock is still ticking in the event of an overround/underround book. Is this what some are claiming ? It would explain how someone could lose 35k in a short period of time anyway. |
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Ah right. Got you.
I guess if you release something, notice it's making money when it's not supposed to, have some IT bloke**it, then inform management in your weekly progress report.... ..."dude, change it back again" |
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"kirk st. moritz 06 Mar 23:32
I know that DStyle ... it is where the spread goes that matters not the match which is a good idea." kirk the match is not a good idea either, where's the free market mentality in that, i understand the idea, but the reality is i should be able to offer what I want and take that offer out if things change in such a way that I feel no longer makes that offer good for me personally.. if it is matched then it should at the very least take the 5 seconds to do so in an in play market, if it doesn't then frankly I feel I'm being robbed, not just of my money but my free and open opportunities in the market. |
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if betfair have another way of making money for themselves, how about they amend the unfair commission structure/decay procedures then?
If this is supposed to be a player to player exchange, fair enough charge for matching up our bets but if they are using another method and it makes them some easy money, then play fair betfair, simplify the whole of the commission fiasco. |
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Medemi: I haven't paid much attention to this aspect because I simply can't believe it to be true - but some people seem to be suggesting a bet placed in-running is instantly matched while the clock is still ticking in the event of an overround/underround book
No, I think what's being suggested is that the bet still takes 5 seconds to enter the market, but immediately before hitting any overrounds are automatically matched. This is exactly the same as botters doing it, except they have a 5 second delay. Weatherman - see above. You may not want your bet to be matched, but if you leave it there longer than 5 seconds botters would have it anyway. Now it's 0 seconds. What does this all mean? A slight change to the behaviour of the markets. Overrunds botters are now out of business? |
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Did that 35k end up in Scripo's pocket ? :)
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I see it like this. Sometimes in football markets I want to get matched fast by taking the market overbroke. I would do this by placing one large bet on one of the runners then waiting for the botters to take the remainder. Now I don't have to wait, as Betfair automatically match my money. For me this may well help. But I still want my 35k back ;)
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Incidentally, that 35k had nothing to do with the market changes :) It was me being a complete @rse. :(
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Lippy, I'm having the same problem as you. Most explanations regarding this issue seem to be in a different language. We've had hundreds of posts on this topic and don't seem to be any closer to knowing why or how these bets are being made.
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Lippy in case you missed it yesterday heres what i did.
It was a quiet inrunning tennis market- Luczak v Gulbis. Gulbis 1.13 / 1.16 Luczak 5.5 / 12 I tried to back Luczak at 5.7. Even though there was no money at that price on the screen i was immediately matched at that price. I would obviously have been better off laying 1.16 than backing 5.7. What happened was Betfair automatically laid some of the money at 1.16 when my bet went in and pocketed the resulting 2.50 profit for themselves. How can that be at all fair? My bet at 5.7 should have been matched at the best possible price available to me i.e the lay of 1.16 equivalent to a back at 7.25. |
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"Septil 07 Mar 01:14
I think the reason this is ruffling so many feathers is that: 1) We, the public, can no longer profit from people who want to back/lay at 'inefficient' prices 2) Betfair (it would seem) are using their position to an unfair advantage However, for the majority of users, it is good, since it means more matched bets." 1) You might well get some moaners about not having that opportunity and loss of money from it, they would be missing the rather more serious point... 2) correct... you last sentence though I disagree with strongly.. this is NOT good for any user of the exchange, best execution is no longer available it seems, free market opportunity has been taken away, prices will be matched which people do not want to get matched ! if they are none the wiser to this then I feel sorry for them, not glad for them that they got their money matched... they will be losing because of it. |
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pleased im not the only one
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ok betfairy. Didn't make sense to me at the time. It's just that there were at least 2 or 3 posts suggesting that bets were being matched before the 5-sec delay was completed. Can't be @rsed to look it up.
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Ok i understand that part.
Cant see why you would complain though . You wanted to be backed at 5.7 and betfair obliged. Only people i could see suffering would be spoofers who would not want their bets matched |
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DStyle .. see basher post 07 Mar 08:41
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medemi, my bets were matched when they reached the market last night... in play.
ie.. i place bet.... 5,4,3,2,1.. bet matched. there was no money there laying, it did not take 5 seconds for me to get matched it was instant. no excess appeared laying the price. unless there's a telepath operating in these markets then we are all worse off here. |
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steady .. I agree re the time delay .. I should have added that. Cancelling in tennis is a major issue with the 5 sec delay. Courtsiders wont get best matched as someone will be quicker than them, however the chance to cancel is important in tennis.
steady 07 Mar 09:05 "kirk st. moritz 06 Mar 23:32 I know that DStyle ... it is where the spread goes that matters not the match which is a good idea." kirk the match is not a good idea either, where's the free market mentality in that, i understand the idea, but the reality is i should be able to offer what I want and take that offer out if things change in such a way that I feel no longer makes that offer good for me personally.. if it is matched then it should at the very least take the 5 seconds to do so in an in play market, if it doesn't then frankly I feel I'm being robbed, not just of my money but my free and open opportunities in the market. |
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Might this also affect the price bullies who try to create momentum swings to the detriment of punters ... good thing there for the majority.
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ah haaaa.
only took me about 12 hours. :p |
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ie.. i place bet.... 5,4,3,2,1.. bet matched.
there was no money there laying, it did not take 5 seconds for me to get matched it was instant What are you talking about ? So it did take 5 seconds to be matched. (?) |
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lippy,
you have been trading shares. How would it feel if you placed an order into market - say buy 1000 @ $10.00. Let's say $9.98 was on offer but you would get the $10.00 price in stead. Your broker would pocket the difference. Are you Fecking kidding me ? |
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Better late than never DStyle ;)
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If i put in an order to buy shares at 10.00 and the order is executed i couldnt care less what happens as long as i dont pay more than 10.00 for the shares. The important thing is you get what you ask for.
That other dude asked for 5.7 andd thats what he got. If he had asked for 5.9 he would of got 5.9 , i cant see how he can complain at being matched at the price he asked for. |
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lippy,
We have a difference of opinion then. But people make mistakes you know, and betfair should provide as much protection as possible. They are taking a different view by trying to capitalize on that. I dont see how that can be good for customers or betting exchanges. |
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medemi please tell me you are fishing... i'll explain anyway as it won't take too long...
my bet submitted.. 5,4,3,2,1.. bet matched. should this not look more like this... my bet submitted.. 5,4,3,2,1.. betfair's matching software sees the overround and submits it's counter bet.. 5,4,3,2,1... my bet matched. why is betfair not subject to the same 5 second delay as everyone else. |
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I wish betfair would implement this system on some of the illequid markets i play on.
Often i am exposed with nobody to offload my bet to. In these situations i would be quite happy to accept poor value just to green up |
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lol - what a stupid point lippy. They're not putting any money into the market....
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lippy, if you could explain how having this in place on illiquid markets would help you green up then please do. if there is not enough money on offer, how would this help ?
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obviously i still dont understand :-(
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