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no wonder you had to become a post lippy
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postie
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should this not look more like this...
my bet submitted.. 5,4,3,2,1.. betfair's matching software sees the overround and submits it's counter bet.. 5,4,3,2,1... my bet matched. steady, that doesn't make sense. The problem is with betfair pocketing the difference. If they can assist in matching people's bets without scimming off the money that belongs to their customers then they would be able to justify their matching algorithms. The way it is now is totally out of order. |
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Had too? While we have been talking i have made over 300 pounds trading a rugby game, so maybe i dont need to understand
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Traders now will have to beware creating overrounds to try and shift prices around, not sure how much would be matched up though to prevent their normal .. lots of re-coding of bots going on soon methinks.
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Waratahs v Brumbies?
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yep
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:)
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the problem with steady's idea is that if Betfair had to wait 5 seconds one of the 2 bets creating the overround book would be gone. Which is incidentally the same problem their own customers face in the market. So Betfair negate the delay to get around this. Disgusting really.
If these bet-matching system has to go on then the person who is on the disadvantaged side of the bet price-wise should be given the best price and the benefits passed to the customers. As it is Betfair will be extracting money from the pool anytime someone makes an error, misclicks or simply asks for a wrong price. And because they arent subject to a 5 second delay more of these errors will be matched. When you think about this to its full extent its very worrying. |
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medemi of course it makes sense. i want my right to make my best execution... my bet doesnt even have to be a mistake when i submit it, in a fast moving market things change fast.
the point you make it the other serious issue with this, perhaps the worst of the lot, but what I posted is still very wrong. if betfair are going to offer this then at the very least i expect them to give me the better price on offer. |
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maybe you should all come and have a play, very exciting finish coming up and no invisable matching going on
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well said robin.
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That's the fundamental point, Betfair have moved the goalposts and have said absolutely zilch!
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my bet doesnt even have to be a mistake when i submit it, in a fast moving market things change fast.
That's a good point. btw, I didn't say you shouldn't get best execution, of course you should. But your other solution of betfair having to wait 5 seconds as well doesn't make sense. See Robin's post. |
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lippy 07 Mar 09:58
maybe you should all come and have a play, very exciting finish coming up and no invisable matching going on :^0 |
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Exaclty in a fast moving sport like tennis it doesnt have to be a mistake you need to cancel.
steady 07 Mar 09:58 medemi of course it makes sense. i want my right to make my best execution... my bet doesnt even have to be a mistake when i submit it, in a fast moving market things change fast. |
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I think it is fair to conclude that betfair are stealing our pennies.
I don't know about you, but I'm getting fed up with babysitting this betfair bunch. It is the Gambling Commission's responsibility. |
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Hold on, hold on hold on!!!!!!!!
Are we now saying that we don't get best execution? |
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I was recommended to look at this thread after I noticed something like this this morning.
I haven't ploughed thorugh all the hundreds of posts, but can someone answer me this... Just now, in the Zvonereva v Williams tennis match, Williams was trading at 1.47 / 1.49 , i.e you could lay her at 1.49 Zvonereva was at something like 2.5 / 3.15 , i.e. there was very little liquidity on that side. I entered a lay of Zvonereva at 2.8 and it was immediately taken. I did the same at 2.7 and same again! What on Earth would Betfair gain by backing Zvonereva at 2.7 when they could be laying Williams at 1.49 (i.e. backing Zvonereva at odds of 3.04)? I don't get it. |
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that what's been said for most of the thread Betfairy
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but I still don't believe it.
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This talk of best execution is the wrong way to look at it.
The question should be do you get what you ask for? If you do then there no problem |
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I think I understand now but I'll use a hypothetical example to see:
Manchester United are playing Arsenal on neutral territory and the odds are likely to be about 1.98 either way (Lets just say it can't be a draw). But when the market opens somebody makes a mistake and the market looks like this: Man Utd to back: No quote Man Utd to lay: No quote: Arsenal to back: No quote Arsenal to lay: 1.01 ($1,000 worth) Obviously the punter has made a mistake but Betfair does not take the money on this occasion as there are no other unmatched bets and therefore it is not recognised as an automatic profit. Let's just say the punter that made the mistake was second to act behind another punter and the market looked like this: Man Utd to back: No quote Man Utd to lay: 2.02 ($1,000 worth) Arsenal to back: No quote Arsenal to lay: 1.01 ($1,000 worth) On this occassion Betfair does lay the $1.01 as it recognises that their is an automatic profit to be made because there is money to lay for Man Utd at the same time. |
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It seems there are 3 people in this marriage
Person, person, and BetFair scraping the pennies off the overround book |
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this beating the delay is the bit i dont like
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its happening again in the lopez-davydenko match. Just laid 222 at 4.7 when there was nothing there trying to back it. Davydenko was around 1.29/1.3. My bet was matched straight away, betfair took davy at 1.29 and made 12 profit in the process.
Obviously i made this error deliberately but lets just say i didnt and wanted to cancel my mistake. I wasnt able to as Betfair had already swept up the bet. That cant be fair. |
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The question should be do you get what you ask for
all i've ever wanted was a level playing field now i find someone can see my bets before they hit the system someone has the ability to have exclusivity to that bet someone doesn't have to display their bets and that someone is betfair this absolutely stinks |
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Unbelievably naive lippy.
Is this scenario okay to you because both parties got what they asked for? Matey at home is three seconds behind live and lays 10k @ 1.5 on a big point. The courtsider sees the point won and backs 10k @ 1.25. Betfair for that three seconds have both bets and back the 1.5 and lay the 1.25. Matey tries to cancel three seconds later but his bet is matched. Betfair now have 2.5k green on the fave. |
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lippy ... if punters/traders are having value removed from them with over-rounds removed do you think we are approaching a bookmaking situation? Traders may be disadvantaged and punters aided if they know the correct price as they wont be pulled around .. that is unless market paranoia makes the spread big as traders try to over compensate for the removal of over-round value.
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aziraphale
if what you say is correct, it would add weight to the argument that they've fecked up the implementation of something more innocuous (albeit unnecesary, unasked for, and undisclosed) |
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No because betfair are just acting like another exchange user or bot.
admittedly an invisable one. But if people are getting matched at the odds they submitted then it not too bad. It will cost us traders money though. Instead of us gaining from silly mistakes it will be betfair |
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They're not .. they dont have a delay.
lippy 07 Mar 10:28 No because betfair are just acting like another exchange user or bot. |
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At least a couple of questions can be answered thanks to recent developments.
- Why betfair persue in-running as a viable source of income - Why they offer dubious markets - Why Adonis had to go... |
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Get On MASSIVE 07 Mar 23:23
Unbelievably naive lippy. Is this scenario okay to you because both parties got what they asked for? Matey at home is three seconds behind live and lays 10k @ 1.5 on a big point. The courtsider sees the point won and backs 10k @ 1.25. Betfair for that three seconds have both bets and back the 1.5 and lay the 1.25. Matey tries to cancel three seconds later but his bet is matched. Betfair now have 2.5k green on the fave. Matey is the one who is naive. Playing 3.5 seconds behind is asking for trouble and betfair will do him a favour by making him quickly realise he will lose his money even faster than he does now. Meanwhile the so called tennis experts , who by and large are nothing but fast picture merchants will now have their wings clipped. About time too !!! |
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It doesnt have to be a mistake in tennis.
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lippy the fast picture / courtsiders may not benefit but those without them will not be able to cancel also.
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Meanwhile the so called tennis experts , who by and large are nothing but fast picture merchants will now have their wings clipped.
lol. LOL |
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lippy has a point.
If all this is correct, then betfair is mopping up instead of those of you who make a living from grabbing pennies from those of us who are slow or make a mistake. The ordinary punter still gets what he wants...the price he's after. |
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Matey is the one who is naive. Playing 3.5 seconds behind is asking for trouble and betfair will do him a favour by making him quickly realise he will lose his money even faster than he does now.
LOL, clueless. :D |
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That goes for you as well soup.
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