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Curious about some odd activity at Betfair

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By:
kirk st. moritz
When: 07 Mar 08 09:36
It is becoming more like a betting shop here. Traders are being compromised lets face it mug punters from the high street will put the most in and take the least out long term so it may make this place more attractive to them .. they will pay most commission wont they if the site goes that way?
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 09:37
Can i suggest that anyone testing this on tennis markets reads aziraphales post of 10:17 and tries to replicate that scenario as well.
By:
Robin Ewe
When: 07 Mar 08 09:38
incidentally i spoke to my account manager about this and he reckoned he knew nothing about it. He says he will ask around and try and get Betfair to make a statement. And for those who say the only people who are bothered are penny-pinchers you dont get down to 2% pinching pennies.
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 09:39
Are you saying you've made a career out of creaming off the overrounds, and now you're unhappy?
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:39
that's not working for me DS
By:
Soup
When: 07 Mar 08 09:40
I think thats what they're saying, betfairy.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:40
how anyone can not have a problem with betfair playing the markets like this is beyond me
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 09:40
not for me either, lol. Just tried putting some 13s and 15s up on Vera, 1.05/1.06 on Venus and they're not getting matched
By:
lippy
When: 07 Mar 08 09:41
If your account manager knows nothing about it and their have been no betfair announcements then there is a very large possibility that the whole thing is one big paranoid wind up
By:
DStyle
When: 07 Mar 08 09:42
if betfair don't know anything about it, then it means someone can see the queue of bets waiting to hit the market and beat the delay.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:43
well if it's not betfair doing it someone is beating the clock again

that implies betfair betfairs security isn't what it ought to be and that has additional implications
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 09:43
how anyone can not have a problem with betfair playing the markets like this is beyond me

Now hold on a minute. The only thing that has changed is this. Now an overrounds are matched instantly, rather than in 5 seconds. And it's Betfair doing this, not the botters.
By:
lippy
When: 07 Mar 08 09:44
That sounds more realistic. If someone has gotten around their system they are not going to advertise the fact , they will quietly try to close the leak
By:
Soup
When: 07 Mar 08 09:44
So betfair creams off the overround botters. Ironic really.
By:
Robin Ewe
When: 07 Mar 08 09:45
Betfair dont wait 5 seconds though Betfairy. dont you see the siginificance of that?

A normal customer would see the overround and have 5 seconds to match it. Equally the person who had made the error would have 5 seconds to cancel. Now any errors are punished immediately and the profits eaten up by Betfair.
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 09:45
tsk, Betfairy, why are you not accepting the issue around best price? that is something new, is it not?

and lippy - it's not a wind up. we've had numerous people prove it's happening since the thread started.
By:
lippy
When: 07 Mar 08 09:47
The Betfairy 07 Mar 23:43


how anyone can not have a problem with betfair playing the markets like this is beyond me

Now hold on a minute. The only thing that has changed is this. Now an overrounds are matched instantly, rather than in 5 seconds. And it's Betfair doing this, not the botters.


exactly , hardly anything sinister going on , if anything it will help punters. Instead of waiting fiver seconds to have their bet not matched there is now much more chance it will be matched. Thos would be seen as a good thoing for 90% of people placing a bet , who want it matched
By:
Soup
When: 07 Mar 08 09:47
Profits eaten up by betfair? Thats what they're here for, after all.

However, this isnt going to affect Joe punter hardly at all. It'll affect you lot who cream the overrounds though. Now you're being creamed.
By:
morris
When: 07 Mar 08 09:47
''The ordinary punter still gets what he wants...the price he's after.''

I must be weird then .

When I ask for a price I want to get more than I ask for.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:47
betfairy, this additional money isnt be shared amongst its customers anymore it's goign to hammersmith towers

how is that good?

that aside, they're supposed to be an exchange, impartial and unbiased
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 09:48
If it's not Betfair, then all Scrip's posts about "ring them and ask them" are bogus.

I think he knows what he's talking about. He tells us they've released "something" in February.
By:
kirk st. moritz
When: 07 Mar 08 09:48
Robin Ewe .. you need to mention it doesnt have to be a mistake .. that is important in ternnis especially.
By:
lippy
When: 07 Mar 08 09:48
and lippy - it's not a wind up. we've had numerous people prove it's happening since the thread started.

But it hasnt been proved that it is being done by betfair
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 09:50
"betfairy, this additional money isnt be shared amongst its customers anymore it's goign to hammersmith towers"

Now hold on a minute again! I will lay 1000 that the botters creaming off the overrounds don't "share" their profits back into the system. LOL. They just take it away and it's never seen again. I'd rather Betfair had the money since it will ultimately be better for the majority, rather than just the few.

Now, if we're not getting best prices (which I still don't believe), then that's a different matter.
By:
Robin Ewe
When: 07 Mar 08 09:50
we dont cream overrounds Soup.

If there is an overbroke book on an inplay event then it means there are 2 opposing bets in the system waiting to be matched and 1 of the prices is wrong. If you try to match both you have to wait 5 seconds and by then one of the 2 bets will have gone.

So it is actually impossible to sweep up overrounds inplay because of this fact. it is too risky that one of the bets will be cancelled.

But if your names Joe Betfair you dont have the 5 second delay at all and can make these transactions on every market making risk free profits at the expense of every customer in the market.
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 09:50
Yes, but we know it is from Scrip's posts.

he want acknowledge a problem with it, but he acknowledges that they're matching overrounds. he also acknowledges that they took a conscious decision not to announce it.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:50
two or three years agos i deliberately created an overround to the tune of around 8k

i wanted out of the bet and value wasn't important

that 8k got taken by betfair customers, now it would taken by betfair

plain wrong
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 09:50
want = won't
By:
cakemonster.
When: 07 Mar 08 09:50
Is the Monster sleeping?

Just asked for 1,92 after Lopez broke, and despite some 2,10 available on Davy to lay was not matched.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:52
botters never played in-running tennis markets ffs

what's an overround now in all likelihood wont be in 5 seconds time

betfair aren't just nicking the loose pennies they're capitailising INSTANTLY on market fluctuations that take a market overround
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 09:53
"So it is actually impossible to sweep up overrounds inplay because of this fact. it is too risky that one of the bets will be cancelled.

But if your names Joe Betfair you dont have the 5 second delay at all and can make these transactions on every market making risk free profits at the expense of every customer in the market.


Robin, this is actually a very good point. Not all overrounds were being matched, but now they are. This is a serious change in market characteristics which SHOULD have been explained to customers. If it's all true then Betfair are VERY VERY naughty in not informing customers.
By:
grafec
When: 07 Mar 08 09:54
This makes BetFair a user in my eyes, and one with a material, technological advantage over other users.

I guess it's not surprising, but the idea that it's fair, is one of the most laughable I've ever heard on here.

The nest step would be to hoover up win bets when they know the result quicker than anyone else. We all get our bets matched and they take a risk free profit. Hardly any difference at all.
By:
Robin Ewe
When: 07 Mar 08 09:54
I agree Betfairy.

And remember that time on the football where you backed the wrong team in an Italian match at 1.25? Well that time you were unlucky because there happened to be someone laying that price. But if you make that mistake in future you will get matched whatever happens and Betfair will profit from it. How do you feel about that then?
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:55
Betfairy, that is the whole point

betfair aren't making markets more efficient for our sake, but for theirs

we are effectively trading against an in-running bot that has no time-delay
By:
Gilmour
When: 07 Mar 08 09:55
I've been stung more than once lately for not having the time to cancel and not getting the price I should.
To implement such a fundamental change without notice, is nothing but plain fraud.

Been using Betfair for long, and been loving it. Now I just feel disappointed and **ed. Really sad, can't even bother with the Lopez match going on.
By:
medemi
When: 07 Mar 08 09:55
betfair aren't just nicking the loose pennies they're capitailising INSTANTLY on market fluctuations that take a market overround

Yep. In other words, stealing money.
By:
the man marcus
When: 07 Mar 08 09:58
well Gilmour you aren't just up against courtsiders, fast pic merchants, api users, market manipulators or more seasoned pros anymore

you are up against something that you can't possibly beat, never will
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 09:58
"And remember that time on the football where you backed the wrong team in an Italian match at 1.25? Well that time you were unlucky because there happened to be someone laying that price. But if you make that mistake in future you will get matched whatever happens and Betfair will profit from it. How do you feel about that then?"

Had there not been money at 1.25 I'd have hit the money already waiting @ 1.08. I see you point, but in this instance my money was gone, wether it was matched on the individual runner or automatically against the others.
By:
The Betf
When: 07 Mar 08 09:59
So the change in markets is this. We're not betting on individual runners now, but on the market as a whole.

It's a fundamental change, agreed.
By:
weatherman2004
When: 07 Mar 08 10:01
I don't think they can keep something like this in operation for long.
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