General Betting
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30 Mar 09
19:58
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Date Joined:
10 Dec 07
A sad state of affairs..... IMO....
I would be totally embarrassed if I wrote either of these documents ( and took 7 months to write them)
Not surprisingly no one was willing to put their names to these verbose, opaque,
I would be totally embarrassed if I wrote either of these documents ( and took 7 months to write them)
Not surprisingly no one was willing to put their names to these verbose, opaque,
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Despite some assertions to the contrary, what limited evidence we have seen to date indicates that the market for in-running betting is likely to be made up predominantly of knowledgeable and skilled betting customers.
any view feck n eejit |
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...and only 54% of trading shop players win was it? Another interesting fact as feck laughed at the suggestion trading shop players were winning off each other.
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Hi Magician, hope you are well?
Did you honestly expect anything else? And before I forget.................... SEETHING :) |
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What is your problem here?
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GOM
very well mate... most things going well my end... Cheltenham was good, was almost very good... I am not sure I expected actions - but these documents are a verbose collections of uninformed comments, dressed up as evidence, in fact they dont even try and dress it up as evidence.... they refuse to publish the data they say they have seen.... so essential say |
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What is your problem here?
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mine?
I'm concerned about the long term success of Betfair.... and dont think Betfair can be so blasé to allow its bad customer to |
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well, i filled in an online questionnaire, about a year ago, on the topic of inRunning betting, tho i can't remember whether it came from BF or the Gambling Commission, and in the 'Any other Comments' (or somesuch) box i gave as my opinion:
what limited evidence I have seen to date indicates that the market for in-running betting is likely to be made up predominantly of knowledgeable and skilled betting customers. can I sue for plagiarism? |
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Response 2.44
In terms of the advantage conferred by trading rooms, the data they had collated showed that for those customers indentified as placing bets from trading rooms 54.8% were profitable over that period (the sample taken was in excess of 50 trading room customers). They concluded from this that if the advantage of attending trading rooms was unfair it would be highly unlikely that more than 45% of those using the facility would have been unprofitable. In an unfair game those profiting from any unfairness would typically have a much higher success rate. This conclusion is laughable..... 54% of fast picture trading room guys win.... therefore it is fair.... But then in 3.6 of the position document, they agree with evidence that the percentage of winner in pre-off and IR are roughly the same (IR is slightly higher) So 54% in cafes win.... but 2-3-45% of total win.... how is it that all the race reading geniuses happen to frequent cafes? And this is before you even begin to quantify the 54% 1) How many customers???? 2) For how long???? 3) Was it and examples of customer taking small losses for long periods before big wins? Hence a short sample would be totally flawed |
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id say 99% of inrunning bets are struck fairly. On tennis there is a bit of a problem with hoovering but you never see people complaining really. Football the delay is fine. Horses - most are skilled players anyway it seems. Again you dont hear people complaining about the time delay. In fact the only person you hear is this busybody Magician who doesnt even bet inrunning.
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Again What is your problem? What "thieving" are you talking about?
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Despite some assertions to the contrary, what limited evidence we have seen to date indicates that the market for in-running betting is likely to be made up predominantly of knowledgeable and skilled betting customers.
any view feck n eejit Are they talking about all ir betting? They said something about the gap/spread between ir winners and losers was only slightly higher than in the pre-event markets. Are the pre-event markets then made up predomiately of even more knowledgeable and skilled betting customers? Think about it. The pre-race markets are riddled with insider trading yet the advantage they have seemingly cannot compete with the advantage held by fast pic merchants. ..and only 54% of trading shop players win was it? Another interesting fact as feck laughed at the suggestion trading shop players were winning off each other. I've never said all trading shop players vwin as they obviously have to compete against other trading shop players. What I said is they have a massive advantage over non fast pic players. What I'd like to know is where these figures came from. Would trading shop players who jacked it after a week because they couldn't hack it count towards the 46% while the 54% was made up of long term winning players. If they based the ratios on trading shop players who attended the trading shop for at least a year, what would the ratio be then? 100% v 0% or are we supposed to believe that trading shops are almost half full of people paying hundreds a week for the privelige of losing more money? |
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why would anyone jack it in if it so easy?
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I've never said all trading shop players vwin as they obviously have to compete against other trading shop players. What I said is they have a massive advantage over non fast pic players.
What part of that don't you understand noodles? Are you saying trading shop players don't have a massive advantage over non fast pic players. If no one played using atr/ruk do you think the trading shops would continue to flourish because trading shop players would be willing to pay hundreds a week just to play against each other? |
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Feck.. Can anyone get a "fast picture" service?
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The at home players are generally aware of the delays and just by looking at the prices they know not to get involved at the crucial end part of the race. Exactly same as playing wolves/lingfield on SIS when we are behind track players we have to adopt the same cautious policy. Its basic common sense.
So consequently I dont believe there is a massive advantage. An advantage yes not a massive one. |
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Just to be clear on this. Knowing the outcome of a race before someone else knows the outcome is a massive advantage.
I don't care about most of this debate but lets not talk silliness. |
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how is it a massive advantage if theyre not getting involved at the end of the race? And if track players see it ahead of shop players how much advnatge is left
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I think you're misunderstanding my point.
My point is simple. It's a massive advantage to see the end of the race before someone else. |
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Lori (or anyone).. I can go to the track, you can go to the track, anyone can go to the track. I can purchase "fast pictures", you can purchase "fast pictures", anyone can purchase "fast pictures" I can go to a "trading shop", you can go to a "trading shop" anyone (over 18) can go to a trading shop.
How am I or you or anyone else disadvantaged please? |
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So man B has a 'massive advantage' over man C even if man A has seen it before both of them?
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The Magician (6), does this paper mean the gloves are now off as far as you are concerned and now you will deploy your systems on this?
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Lori,
You are right. People courtside, at the track or event venue have a massive advantage over everyone else. Until picture broadcasting technology moves forward this will always be the case. The only solution would be to stop in-running until the 'problem' is solved or enlist the venue providers to stop all unlicensed communication during an event. |
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Also very disappointing to read the conclusion that
'the use of bots are considered open and fair' What planet are they on ? |
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I can buy/make a bot, you can buy/make a bot, anyone can buy/make a bot.
Where is the use of bots not fair please? |
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wonby,
Are you denying that whoever sees the outcome of the race first has a massive advantage over someone who sees it several seconds later, or are you making a seperate unrelated point about how people could act to negate this advantage which is nothing to do with the point I am making. |
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yes heynoodles, that is clearly the case as there will be money come in after A and B have both seen, but C hasnt.
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Lori.. The complaining is about fairness, you or I or anyone else have the ability to see the event as it happens if you so choose to, choosing not to do so just puts yourself at a disadvantage.
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frog2 30 Mar 23:24
The Magician (6), does this paper mean the gloves are now off as far as you are concerned and now you will deploy your systems on this? there might be one interim step Frog I think it is time to build a bot to maticulous reocrd and capture getting unfair bets matched IR and then force the comisison to cancel them.... |
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My complaining isn't about fairness, my complaining is about people defining every single thing to their own ends.
I'm right on the fence in this argument as I keep away from anything where I'm behind the market and don't want to waste much energy on caring what happens, it just gets up my nose to see the half with a vested interest in keeping faster pics say it's not an advantage. Making logical and correct points like you do would be a far better approach than straight up gibberish that some of the others invest in. |
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What are "unfair matched bets" please? To whom are they unfair?
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magician,
'unfair bets matched in-running' Doesn't that already happen with the 'best execution logic' which is the biggest joke ever. Lori, If you avoid all instances where you are behind, I presume you sensibly don't play any events in-running. |
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it just gets up my nose to see the half with a vested interest in keeping faster pics say it's not an advantage.
pmsl. I didnt want IR banned couldnt care less if there is a level playing field regarding picture speed. And your point about man C ive already stated only an idiot would bet near the line using pictures they know are delayed. |
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You can bet tennis between points in the vast majority of tournaments, cricket between balls, soccer in matches where you want to lay the current score, some darts matches between visits to the board. There's a long list.
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noodles,
read the top 30 posts in this forum on a given day and tell me there's no idiots on betfair. |
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Special Cargo 30 Mar 23:41
magician, 'unfair bets matched in-running' Doesn't that already happen with the 'best execution logic' which is the biggest joke ever. explain what you mean? I am talking about irrefutably unfair... dead horse unfair... which betfair have already in principle said should be void... |
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how could u ever prove that magician? Are u going to take someone to court to get them to swear on oath they knew in a split second decision what the fate of a horse was?
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what are the vested interests of the 18 people that made a submission to this review????
Appendix A: List of respondents List of Respondents Category 1. Graham Pigott Individual 2. Harry Demetriou Individual 3. Rob Tattersall Individual 4. Douglas Kearney Individual 5. John Asquith Individual 6. Phil Curry Individual 7. Turf Trax Other 8. Nick Moore Individual 9. Betfair Operator 10. Name confidential Individual 11. Name confidential Individual 12. Mike Stadler Individual 13. Remote Gambling Association and Association of British Bookmakers Ltd Industry bodies 14.** Operator 15. Gala Coral Operator 16. |
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Lori.... There are lots of them, I rely on them being here. If they can't understand what "fair' really is (means) they do have a problem, perhaps the reason I haven't had a question answered means I have helped the penny drop somewhere.
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