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if someone goes to the races,sits in good position in the stand, wi fi laptop, state of the art one touch/voice control software etc and makes a killing. has he got an unfair advantage or should he be applauded for getting up off his ar/se and using his brain?
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gerard 01 Apr 13:31
I've been away for a couple of days - was there a thread where everyone who's been telling us ad nauseum that its days were numbered signed in to say they were wrong?Thanks in advance... gerard, just out of interest, have you ever thought a referee made a wrong decision or are they always right regardless of how brainless they are? |
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Feck, my gripe is not particularly with whether the decision was right or wrong, more with those forumites who have been saying (as you rightly quote ad nauseum) "mark my words things are going to change". Now that it is clear they are not going to change, rather than admit they were wrong these people simply go off at a different tangent.
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No such thing as "fair and square" in betting Feck, as you well know.
Better inform the GC artie. Save them wasting man years on the drivel they came up with on their ir investigation. I take it you consider those fleeced by the clock beaters had a fair deal then? If some day you put up the biggest bet of your life ir and someone finds a way to block access to betfair for everyone else and scoops up your bet once it's beat you'll marvel at their ingenuity and not bother contacting betfair? |
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gerard in what way did people think things were going to change?
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Exactly Gerard
Magician has been preaching for months about the 'illegality' of IR betting also saying it will definitely change when the GC review it Now, he puts up a post saying he 'feared' it would happen as it has - I kinda agreed with his original thoughts, but this is hypocitical |
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"Would you play roulette with a**wheel?
How about loaded dice? Poker with marked cards perhaps?" This isn't comparing like for like, so trying to say what courtsiders or those at a race course are in some way **ing is complete and utter nonsense.They are just availing themselves of data earlier. Those complaining can either (a) not bet or (b) avail themselves of the publicly available data....Exactly the same way as those at the racetrack who can see the condition of a horse in the flesh just before the off. |
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gerard, the magician thought they might insist the delay on horse racing be made longer than the broadcasting delay (something that IMO would've made the situation worse while offer takers have no chance to cancel). He was wrong about that but it remains to be seen if he is wrong on hismain point i.e. the effect of ir on betfair's long term viability.
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However, in the interests of liquidity, it would be great if somehow all the public had access to delay free pictures.
Obviously this can never happen but the more level the playing field the better it is for everyone, from a liquidity standpoint anyway. Personally I'm a c rap race reader and would need pictures about 2 secs ahead to take advantage, something which I'm glad to say, in my other guise, as DrWho (sadly banned from the forum for comments about the PC), I am able to do in my tardis :) |
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I would suggest longterm is well under way and that betfair has not suffered.
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Fleeced by clock beaters, or fleeced by form students and "value" spotters like yourself Feck - no difference in my opinion.
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Anyway, pythia said betfair were hoping to be able to supply horse racing internet feeds with only a 2 second delay. Hopefully that will come about and put an end to easy money (in horse racing at least). This place has become as**my as the financial sector.
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you sound like ud be better off out of it feck
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And how about this then:
Zeljko Ranogajec and his team are well known for being able to create a very accurate tissue and carefully knock prices out cheaply in the mornings in order to back them at much greater prices later on. Is that better or worse ? |
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"They are just availing themselves of data earlier"
So, all of these must be OK then laying a horse with inside knowledge that it's not off Using confidential betting information to back/lay in advance of market movement offering up a horse that has fallen to someone who doen't know it has fallen backing/laying when a result has been pre-arranged They could all be said to bel benefitting from "earlier data" which is a euphemism for **ing. It can't just be a free for all where the law of the jungle applies. Every sport has its rules and regulations, its code of ethics; the concept of a "fair go" is something to aspire to. Ultimately, you don't have to play games of "Find the Lady"and you can walk away. And that is just what will prove to be the future.People will walk away. We're now entering the uncharted waters ofa philospophical debate about gambling and that could go on for ever I suppose. |
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Fleeced by clock beaters, or fleeced by form students and "value" spotters like yourself Feck - no difference in my opinion.
You cannot win against clock beaters artie. I've had losing runs of such length that they would make me appear like the biggest mug punter under the sun. Nevertheless, I thank you for the esteem you obviously have for me. |
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Again, not like for like. ANYONE can go to the course and use the publicly available data they see in front of them.
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Zeljko Ranogajec and his team are well known for being able to create a very accurate tissue and carefully knock prices out cheaply in the mornings in order to back them at much greater prices later on.
Is that better or worse ? Again, that's down to betfair and their ridiculous stockmarket interface. You can double some horse's prices for £6 in the morning. |
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So what's your solution for the good old Zeljko Ranogajec techniques then ?
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Nothing wrong with market manipulation.
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Just as the clock beating angle was available to anyone diddycoy.
Noodles, out of what? |
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So what's your solution for the good old Zeljko Ranogajec techniques then ?
A series of private price auctions. No one sees anyone else's odds or stake. Each has to bet on their own opinion with only the odds from the previous auction as a guide to prices. Insiders excepted, a parasite free market. |
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out of betfair the whole rotten, rancid, stinking mess.
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Not an option noodles just like before nationalisation I had to bank with poncing fkng banks.
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mmmm nice. Sounds like a real alternative that will increase liquidity no end :)
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And no dirty in-running betting of course...
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I can see you're grounded in the real world Feck...
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I wondered if the GC might try to do something about IR if they were lobbied by major bookmakers. However from their comments it's obvious that they are just like all the other regulators in the UK. They will never upset any of the companies who pay their fees, like the FSA allowed banks to do 125% mortgages and 10 times salary etc.
Perhaps the "professional" terminology is a step towards licensing and taxation of "pro" punters? |
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A prile of consecutive posts jam packed with reasons why it wouldn't work diddycoy. Can't argue with that.
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Perhaps the "professional" terminology is a step towards licensing and taxation of "pro" punters?
Could well be Rollo. This glut of "professional gamblers" has already brought us all the pc. We're inflicted with an interface that accomodates trading rather than gambling. The trading figures are womanised. The hooverers, trappers and **s have driven God knows how many people off the site. Taxation next? Why not? |
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"The hooverers, trappers, and **s have driven God knows how many people off this site".......and your evidence to back up this absurd statement is.........
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I did say "God knows" but I would've thought basic logic would've dictated that anyone who was **ed would be less likely to bet with the firm in question again. Where is the evidence to back up your assertion that such logic is absurd?
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People who lose day after day , year after year in betting shops still return:and the best evidence of all - you. You are the biggest Betfair hater/critic on the planet, and you're still here !
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artie, off topic but do you still think Betfair is the 'best thing since sliced bread' now they introduced the Premium Charge?
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Feck,
I felt sure you would say the evidence is that Betfair have brought in PCs. Aren't PCs their recognition that the sports betting client base is never going get much bigger/more viable and you could argue that is due to what you have said about hooverers etc. Therefore 'anything goes' as long as they get their share of it? If Betfair were bothered about the morals of someone winning £300k and only paying £2k commission they wouldn't think PCs was the answer would they? |
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£6k comm not £2k
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thought u had a special deal there for a minute rollo!
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Yes. Yes. Still the best thing since sliced bread because of the wide range of betting activities made possible.
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feck, it's not **ing. the sort of people who bet in running without up-to-date pictures are betting for fun. they are perfectly entitled to do this and lose their money.
you only get so upset because you would prefer they were losing money to your superior horseracing knowledge. |
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We're talking ex-city Rollo, so morals don't come into it. They had been looking for ways of getting more commission out of traders for years before betfair started stagnating so it was coming regardless. That's not to say they haven't recognised that their future business is now mainly dependent on bookmaker's enforced exiles.
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