|
By:
yeah, as far as i am aware there has been no change to the delay of recent transmission speeds. i've spoken to a few different people in betfair about the chances of them getting involved, and the last time there seemed to be at least some kind of concern or willingness to get involved. lets not forget they did try to help atr keep atr extra on the go but they wanted £1500/meeting which was understandably too much. haven't spoken to betfair about this recently so not sure about the rumours about the flash pics, although this was brought up about 6 months ago when we had an account manager visit about the pc charge. they seemed hopeful that at some point the technology would be there to do this and at least they are aware of how this would improve the fairness of the markets. my big concern would be that flash pics are fast enough - i reckon you need to be an absolute maximum of 2 secs behind live but preferably quicker than that in order for them to be quick enough for everyone to compete with the track and raw feed players(if they exist).
|
|
By:
If they were to use the live feed direct from the track I think the delay would be under a second. I'm sure Pythia stated on another thread a few weeks ago that the tests Betfair have conducted have shown that the delay using Flash was minimal.
|
|
By:
thats promising news, lets hope the quality is up to standard as well. hopefully if pythia reads this thread he will be able to bring us some news. if not, i'll contact betfair about it in the next few days.
|
|
By:
If pictures where fair - they could potentially build a great IR product, there would need to be warnings and protection
if things continue how they are it will die |
|
By:
yea, think it could only be a good thing for IR turnover, but if it stays the way it is i cant see how it is sustainable. but thats only my opinion.
|
|
By:
not sure of how they'd work out the legalities of it mind you, lets not forget that there are tv rights issues to be considered here. if it works in horse racing though, the world is their oyster as far as in running betting is concerned. fingers crossed.
|
|
By:
the magician,
the fairness of IR betting is not really the concern of betfair imo.....they simply create markets and manage them by letting their users trade/gamble and ultimately for their efforts in allowing users to bet on their interface receive commission.... how in this day and age betfair allow users to still lay 1000 bets on horses that PULL UP or FALL or refuse to race is morally wrong end of IR betting on horse racing with the advent of one click software like gruss has made the markets very efficient and as many FT'ers will tell you the game is now hard and there is no free money about. With the advent of raw feeds (yes they do exist quite frequently for the masses and for every sis meet for the priviledged few) and now turf being 0.8s (a massive edge on the flat) ahad of ruk and atr being c1.5s behind sis (which in turn is between 2.5 and 3 seconds behind realtime) and it puts into perspective how difficult it is for the stay at home player. What is needed is for the speeds of atr, ruk and sis to be speeded up dramatically to c 0.7-1s behind live ie terrestrial type speeds/raw feed speeds so that it is a level playing field....the edge that fast pic players get then will be negligible and success ir will depend largely on how good you are This will NEVER HAPPEN unless significant pressure is placed on betfair to act....as sadly they are not interested in mking it fairer for the masses which is why they have paid commission rebates to exchange shops since their inception. The bankman is to be respected in his IR views as he has played the IR markets legitimately from a trading shop for a long time.....similarly while you appear to have an axe to gring re: betfair in the main the magician....your crusade for fairness in betting is to be applauded....i understand you have a profile which could create awareness of the issues and exert pressure on betfair, ruk, atr, racetech and sis to speed up the feeds for the masses SIS is now very slow compared to how it used to play re: prices as more and more people use callers from the tracks, use internet on their phones at the track or wifi (eg wolves hotel or kempton restaurant) and the increasing use of raw feeds (leaked out by sis/racetech people) In fact one forumite professed to knowing one racetech engineer who makes 250k per year from his van (i don't know whether this was true) and the 190 layer is almost certainly using sis live/raw feed For the ft and occasional punters who play the game straight this is bad news. The solution as Jack Bauer 24 puts forward is a good one ...to use flash pics like betfair provides for selected tennis and argentian/brazilian soccer matches which is marginally behind live betfair could offer these to their customers for a small fee or for free if they played these races or even to premium charge customers or 2%ers free as a goodwill gesture clearly there are political issues that need addressing and revolving between racetech/the tracks and betfair and exchange shops to be able to facilitate this but i would argue without this taking place the lifespan of ir horse betting will be dead inside 2 years maybe someone like the magician aided by the bankman could instigate some much needed change in this area which not one person could argue including frog would be good for the ir horse bettor and make it as fair as humanly possible. yours in sport |
|
By:
the magician,
the fairness of IR betting is not really the concern of betfair imo.....they simply create markets and manage them by letting their users trade/gamble and ultimately for their efforts in allowing users to bet on their interface receive commission.... how in this day and age betfair allow users to still lay 1000 bets on horses that PULL UP or FALL or refuse to race is morally wrong end of IR betting on horse racing with the advent of one click software like gruss has made the markets very efficient and as many FT'ers will tell you the game is now hard and there is no free money about. With the advent of raw feeds (yes they do exist quite frequently for the masses and for every sis meet for the priviledged few) and now turf being 0.8s (a massive edge on the flat) ahad of ruk and atr being c1.5s behind sis (which in turn is between 2.5 and 3 seconds behind realtime) and it puts into perspective how difficult it is for the stay at home player. What is needed is for the speeds of atr, ruk and sis to be speeded up dramatically to c 0.7-1s behind live ie terrestrial type speeds/raw feed speeds so that it is a level playing field....the edge that fast pic players get then will be negligible and success ir will depend largely on how good you are This will NEVER HAPPEN unless significant pressure is placed on betfair to act....as sadly they are not interested in mking it fairer for the masses which is why they have paid commission rebates to exchange shops since their inception. The bankman is to be respected in his IR views as he has played the IR markets legitimately from a trading shop for a long time.....similarly while you appear to have an axe to gring re: betfair in the main the magician....your crusade for fairness in betting is to be applauded....i understand you have a profile which could create awareness of the issues and exert pressure on betfair, ruk, atr, racetech and sis to speed up the feeds for the masses SIS is now very slow compared to how it used to play re: prices as more and more people use callers from the tracks, use internet on their phones at the track or wifi (eg wolves hotel or kempton restaurant) and the increasing use of raw feeds (leaked out by sis/racetech people) In fact one forumite professed to knowing one racetech engineer who makes 250k per year from his van (i don't know whether this was true) and the 190 layer is almost certainly using sis live/raw feed For the ft and occasional punters who play the game straight this is bad news. The solution as Jack Bauer puts forward is a good one ...to use flash pics like betfair provides for selected tennis and argentian/brazilian soccer matches which is marginally behind live betfair could offer these to their customers for a small fee or for free if they played these races or even to premium charge customers or premim accounts free as a goodwill gesture clearly there are political issues that need addressing and revolving between racetech/the tracks and betfair and exchange shops to be able to facilitate this but i would argue without this taking place the lifespan of ir horse betting will be dead inside 2 years maybe someone like the magician aided by the bankman could instigate some much needed change in this area which not one person could argue including frog would be good for the ir horse bettor and make it as fair as humanly possible. |
|
By:
the magician,
the fairness of IR betting is not really the concern of betfair imo.....they simply create markets and manage them by letting their users trade/gamble and ultimately for their efforts in allowing users to bet on their interface receive commission.... how in this day and age betfair allow users to still lay 1000 bets on horses that PULL UP or FALL or refuse to race is morally wrong end of IR betting on horse racing with the advent of one click software like gruss has made the markets very efficient and as many FTers will tell you the game is now hard and there is no free money about. With the advent of raw feeds (yes they do exist quite frequently for the masses and for every sis meet for the priviledged few) and now turf being 0.8s (a massive edge on the flat) ahad of ruk and atr being 1.5s behind sis (which in turn is between 2.5 and 3 seconds behind realtime) and it puts into perspective how difficult it is for the stay at home player. What is needed is for the speeds of atr, ruk and sis to be speeded up dramatically to c 0.7 to 1s behind live ie terrestrial type speeds/raw feed speeds so that it is a level playing field....the edge that fast pic players get then will be negligible and success ir will depend largely on how good you are This will NEVER HAPPEN unless significant pressure is placed on betfair to act....as sadly they are not interested in mking it fairer for the masses which is why they have paid commission rebates to exchange shops since their inception. The bankman is to be respected in his IR views as he has played the IR markets legitimately from a trading shop for a long time.....similarly while you appear to have an axe to gring re: betfair in the main the magician....your crusade for fairness in betting is to be applauded....i understand you have a profile which could create awareness of the issues and exert pressure on betfair, ruk, atr, racetech and sis to speed up the feeds for the masses SIS is now very slow compared to how it used to play re: prices as more and more people use callers from the tracks, use internet on their phones at the track or wifi (eg wolves hotel or kempton restaurant) and the increasing use of raw feeds (leaked out by sis/racetech people) In fact one forumite professed to knowing one racetech engineer who makes 250k per year from his van (i don't know whether this was true) and the 190 layer is almost certainly using sis live/raw feed For the ft and occasional punters who play the game straight this is bad news. The solution as Jack Bauer puts forward is a good one ...to use flash pics like betfair provides for selected tennis and argentian/brazilian soccer matches which is marginally behind live betfair could offer these to their customers for a small fee or for free if they played these races or even to premium charge customers or premim accounts free as a goodwill gesture clearly there are political issues that need addressing and revolving between racetech/the tracks and betfair and exchange shops to be able to facilitate this but i would argue without this taking place the lifespan of ir horse betting will be dead inside 2 years maybe someone like the magician aided by the bankman could instigate some much needed change in this area which not one person could argue including frog would be good for the ir horse bettor and make it as fair as humanly possible. |
|
By:
more than happy to work with bankman he is a realist
|
|
By:
that should read "would not be bad#
good luck with this project the magician....i wish you well as you come across as a good egg fighting for the smaller punter incidentally that list you pubblished the other day...it includes one successful ir punter i know as well as one anti ir one....surprised someone like koo was not asked for input tbh |
|
By:
no-one was aksed because they would not know who to ask....
people vounterred... and it is disappointly after submitting 11 passges they brush me off in one metions of something i CALLED FOR AND NO DISCUSSION OF TI AT ALL - OR JUSTIFICATION WHY THYE DID NOT CONSIDER OR IMPLIMENT MY CALL |
|
By:
sorry hit cap locks by accident
|
|
By:
Anyway
it is unlikely to be the end of the IR, I suspect this might surface again shortly, and the submission will be published |
|
By:
ok, unless there are things going on in the background at sis/turftv/atr/ruk that i don't know about its probably safe to assume that all my suggestions have fallen on deaf ears - fair enough, they're not obliged to do anything - i'll keep pestering them though. the way forward at the moment is clearly the flash pics option - i'll send an email off to betfair to see if there have been any developments.
|
|
By:
Betfair could bring some semblance of fairness to ir horse racing as it stands by suspending a few furlongs out for all accounts bar those betting from trading shops or who could prove they had home sis. That would probably mean it would no longer be worthwhile having a raw feed or attending the course.
|
|
By:
On second thoughts cancel the home sis as course / raw feed players would just sign up for that. Would there not though be a way to ensure people were playing from trading shops?
|
|
By:
there are many ways to potentially**the IR betting interface...
1) they could also make the IR race a continous serieces of 3 second Mini auctions. 2) what about reversing the price prioty of the bets.... currently those in the systems are give price priority, make the bets entering the system have price priority need to think if there are issues with that but I dont see them yet ( except for fast finger trades) |
|
By:
For horse racing suspending as they pass the furlong pole would certainly be interesting.
No more money being nicked by people knowing the result. It would become more a case of judgement and the large sums wiping the market would end or at least be less likely. |
|
By:
Betfair could bring some semblance of fairness to ir horse racing as it stands by suspending a few furlongs out for all accounts bar those betting from trading shops. That would probably mean it would no longer be worthwhile having a raw feed or attending the course.
I didn't really expect any support for this despite the fact it would mean those in trading shops would no longer have to worry about the raw feed and course players and those shrewdies at home could continue to play as they claim they do now (i.e. they could submit up until a few furlongs out thereafter cancel only). Given the lack of support, can we now put to bed this sh1te about trading shop players winning their money from trading shop players and those ridiculous 54%-46% GC figures? |
|
By:
Magician you really are clueless
|
|
By:
Constructive post Mugsgame - care to give some reasoning or facts to back that up...
or is it a vested interest that you hold on IR that leads you to attack me without justification? Interested to know .... The Magcian |
|
By:
Betfair could bring some semblance of fairness to ir horse racing as it stands by suspending a few furlongs out for all accounts bar those betting from trading shops. That would probably mean it would no longer be worthwhile having a raw feed or attending the course.
I didn't really expect any support for this despite the fact it would mean those in trading shops would no longer have to worry about the raw feed and course players and those shrewdies at home could continue to play as they claim they do now (i.e. they could submit up until a few furlongs out thereafter cancel only). Given the lack of support, can we now put to bed this sh1te about trading shop players winning their money from trading shop players and those ridiculous 54%-46% GC figures? I'll take the silence as a Yes ;-) |
|
By:
the only people that bought the 55/45 split where the GC
And they are looking pretty silly for doing so, as are the individuals that feed it too them and mislead ito thinking it was robust data and conclusion |
|
By:
i shall wait for mugsgame to enlighten us all. with something other than a derogatory fcking insult.
|
|
By:
MugsGame 07 Apr 09:45
Magician you really are clueless He's not as clever as that mate. |
|
By:
another insult without data evidence - or logic?
Amanda - care to justify you comments? like Mugsgame I doubt it people might not like, my black and white pedantic approach to fairness, losts of Pro IR players probably see a grain of truth in some of my arguements but dissagree with my stringent interpretation... fair enough they agree to disagree and we both move forward trying to make the playing field better for everyone. but I doubt many or any would say that I am idiot - because I can assure you I am not Pedantic - yes black and white view of the world - I am an indivudal it is to be binary (for companies it is hard) Stuborn - I dont think so Big Ego - at times yes, driven by 1) and 2) stupid, clueless, idiot less than clueless - you are sadly mistaken... but that might be my ego talking |
|
By:
it is easy to be binary
|
|
By:
Magician
Stick to reason, logic, evidance as you do. Those who can't string a coherant sentance or two together to form an argument do not help progress of any kind. Went to Charles Darwin's house yesterday. Amazing to think that there are millions of people to this day who still believe that the earth was created 4000 years ago in perfect form.And some of these are scientists! Plenty of disbelievers on here even though none of us claim (as far as I know) that anyone is up to Darwin's equivalent. Keep up the good work. |
|
By:
Starting to think you might have been right all along, Magician.
Betfair's solution on the slow pictures debacle - install a 20% tax on the people fleecing those using the slow pictures. So the losers get fleeced and Betfair benefit 10mil a year. Everyone's a winner except the poor bloke unaware of the delay. I often play on the place market where there is less liquidity (so you can clearly see how people are backing something that crucially changed a second or so previously) and can say with near 100% certainty people that some people are unaware of how far behind they are. Finally, Betfair's suspending at the end of the race is a total joke. People are betting after the line on Turftv every day. I emailed them and they said theyd get back to me ages ago. Bet-fair LOL. |
|
By:
*the significance of the late suspend means a bobbing heads finish on RUK might be a clear head either way on Turftv or live at the track.
|
|
By:
ROFPML The exchange shop boys want ir banned because course trading shops are starting up.
|
|
By:
Are you capable of serious debate or just point scoring?
1. SIS tracks already very very hard for flat racing so that on course venture makes no diff to me 2. I dont speak for 'exchange shop boys' just myself and most of them dont agree with me 3. I dont want to win money under false pretences 4. Betfair's suspend policy is a disgrace - but it favours exchange shop players 5. The premium charge is a joke and hounding people that may have tried to open new ac's also sucks |
|
By:
Where do you stand on that one feck? Its ok for the likes of you to open new a/c's under family members names with bookies but do it on here to avoid the pc and they lock your a/c, take the money with no appeal or evidence needed and threaten to close your ac down for ever if you dont comply. LOL is it the mafia.
|
|
By:
They have done this to you Heynoodles ?
|
|
By:
No, but ive heard of 2 cases now that were handled the same way.
|
|
By:
I think they should just allow them to avoid the pc and charge me more to make up for it.
|
|
By:
.
|