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Replies: 3,498
By:
enpassant
When: 14 Jan 19 10:03
^You echo many of my own observations and particularly that we are pretty much forced to give the young players their heads.
Though I think Ramsey is too expensive on wages and has to go. It may be that we have to sell players on too big a wage for peanuts to get them off the books.
By:
John.W.Henry.
When: 14 Jan 19 12:13
Reports say Ramsey gone so we need another plan
By:
lurka
When: 14 Jan 19 13:20
enpassant I know what the issue is with wages. But that all stems from Wenger being in charge for far too long and whose fault is that? The club is in a great financial position from a businessman's point of view but is hamstrung because Kroenke failed to invest in the team and allowed Wenger's wage structure and then the signing of Ozil on huge wages to prevent us from being able to increase the wage bill this season. You can blame that on Wenger and Gazidis but this is the fallout from Wenger being in charge for far too long and Kroenke hoarding cash for the last 7 years and it's something we're only realising now.

You only have to look at Kroenke's other teams to see that he is not a man who cares primarily about making his teams successful. His policy has been to hoard cash since he became owner. Having Wenger in charge was instrumental to that. You'd have to be naive to assume that once the restrictions relax he's going to start spending the club's money on the team. It will increase, yes, but he has never channelled the resources of the club into the team like other owners have. Not with Arsenal or any of his teams. It will be some other fob-off excuse he'll hide behind.
By:
enpassant
When: 15 Jan 19 06:02
"'Granit Xhaka has now made more errors leading to goals in the Premier League than any other outfield player since the start of last season.'"
By:
Blackrock
When: 15 Jan 19 11:27
We  know Kroenke is using Arsenal just as one of his businesses. The football club is in our hearts but not in his. He wants Arsenal to be self sufficient as it were, and we generate enough revenue to be able to buy quality not freebies.

Problem we are experiencing at the minute is the making of Gazidis and Wenger. Kroenke put Gazidis in charge of the football club, and a right bollox he made of it. We have Ozil on 350 a week, Mickey 190 Kolasinac on 190 even Jenkinson is on 62, earning more than Lucas Torreira. Means the likes of Ramsey are demanding big bucks.

This has made like difficult with FFP. Wenger left us with a poor squad and Emery is trying to pull rabbits out of a hat. The players mentioned above have to be got rid of but who will buy them on these wages.

Josh Kroenke came over to evaluate the state of the club, and within no time recommended to his father,to get rid of Wenger and Gazidis.

We now have a new structure in place and it may take alot longer to see us challenging again than we originally thought.
By:
enpassant
When: 15 Jan 19 11:51
If we look over the medium to long term, Ozil needs to be frozen out (bad for the present but it seems that process is already underway). Kolasinac (who I do like and is decent LWB but poor LB) could be offloaded but we would have to let him go for peanuts for another club to be able to sort his wages. Mikhitaryan would be pretty much the same but less of a loss to the team given his performances. Jenkinson clearly refuses to go anywhere. 
So we have some real problems to work on but are at the mercy of players, agents and other clubs to sort them. A total f..k up.
By:
Blackrock
When: 15 Jan 19 12:15
The bringing of Lucas Perez to the club. Was offered to Arsenal who said 'no thanks'. Was offered to Crystal Palace who said 'no thanks'.

Then several weeks later signs for 17m. Hardly gets a game and sold for 4m. Wonder who was responsible for that?
By:
John.W.Henry.
When: 15 Jan 19 12:32
Cech to retire at end of season
By:
enpassant
When: 15 Jan 19 12:37
He was still a better player than Walcott and so was Cambell actually but we got rid of them 2 and kept Walcott on £100kpw ! That suggests we have been subject to the very same problems for a very long time and Wenger/Gazidis were wholly responsible for the continued f..k up. Lurka blames Kreonke because he was owner and could have sacked them both and of course that is true but he thought he had a footballing genius running the club and he knew f..k all about the game himself. Wenger's reputation has taken another knock.
By:
enpassant
When: 15 Jan 19 12:37
^Perez
By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 17:58

Jan 12, 2019 -- 3:36PM, darren_discombobulates_sports wrote:


I think the way Kroenke thinks is, why should I put my own money into the club when the club can't even spend it's own money properly, that's why he sent his son over and before you know it, Wenger has gone, Gazidis has gone, there's a new footballing director in charge, a new head of recruitment and a new manager.The mess that has been made in recent years has been amazing, allowing so many players contracts to run down to the point where, they leave on a free or for peanuts, the signing up of current players on ridiculous wages such as Ozil, poor recruitment of players in the first place and the poor coaching where players never seemed to improve over time such as Walcott.As far as I understand it, you can only increase your wage bill by 7% annually, which would explain a) why Ramsey is leaving and b) why Arsenal can't buy anyone and are only looking for loans where the parent clubs pays part of the salary til the summer where they can offload some players.I would imagine Emery can't wait to get rid of Ozil on 350k a week, you can sign two needed defenders on 175k a week instead, where it's actually needed. The problem being is Ozil is contract for a few more years and nobody bar China will pay up that kind of money to take him on, seems to me Emery is trying to shuffle him out the door so he might take up the next best offer.Imo, Emery is the least culpable of everyone, when he came into the club he never had big shoes to fill he has a big mess to clean up, Leno is a good keeper, Lichenstein is just a stop gap used to cover Bellerin, Koscielny and Monreal should now be moved on and Mustafi is not top drawer, it's no coincidence Arsenal's form has dipped since Holding became injured, he suits the way Emery wants his defenders to play out from the back.Every manager needs 3 transfer windows to get the players he wants and to ship out those surplus to requirements, he should be judged next season imo, this season is a free hit.


You complain about allowing players to run down their contract to the point that they can leave for nothing and also that Ozil is paid 300k+ a week. The alternative to paying Ozil 300k a week was to allow him to leave for nothing.

By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 18:25

Jan 14, 2019 -- 1:20PM, lurka wrote:


enpassant I know what the issue is with wages. But that all stems from Wenger being in charge for far too long and whose fault is that? The club is in a great financial position from a businessman's point of view but is hamstrung because Kroenke failed to invest in the team and allowed Wenger's wage structure and then the signing of Ozil on huge wages to prevent us from being able to increase the wage bill this season. You can blame that on Wenger and Gazidis but this is the fallout from Wenger being in charge for far too long and Kroenke hoarding cash for the last 7 years and it's something we're only realising now. You only have to look at Kroenke's other teams to see that he is not a man who cares primarily about making his teams successful. His policy has been to hoard cash since he became owner. Having Wenger in charge was instrumental to that. You'd have to be naive to assume that once the restrictions relax he's going to start spending the club's money on the team. It will increase, yes, but he has never channelled the resources of the club into the team like other owners have. Not with Arsenal or any of his teams. It will be some other fob-off excuse he'll hide behind.


The Kroenke's are having success with their other teams though: The Denver Nuggets are top of their conference in the NBA. If The LA Rams win on Sunday they are in The Super Bowl.

By:
enpassant
When: 15 Jan 19 18:27
With the benefit of hindsight, the club would prefer he had left for nothing it seems.
By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 18:29
True, and if Ramsay was given 275k a week and then was struggling next season people would be saying 'why did we give him all that.....
By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 18:38
Arsenal's problem is not the Kroenkes, who are no worse than most big club owners, it is that you need a great manager to challenge the mega rich clubs, and they have not had one in a long time. Klopp can do it, Simeone can do it. Wenger couldn't and neither will Emery.

Wenger was great up til the mid noughties but he had flaws that were disguised by some good fortune (mainly inheriting great defenders that we now know he would never have been able to identify himself). He did not have the drive of a top competitor either. Ferguson was reinvigorated when clubs that could outspend his came along. Wenger immediately adopted a defeatist mentality.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 15 Jan 19 18:43
No the alternative was was to sell him if he hadn't signed a new contract for what he's worth/what he should have been offered, by the time he's contract had 18 months left on it, that's the way it used to be under the old regime, I've heard Merson talk about it many a time, if you hadn't signed a new deal by then they'd sell you, but because Wenger wanted him and Gazidis had no idea what he was doing he was allowed to run it down and then be given a bumper new contract, which was bizarre as it was Arsenal in the stronger negotiating position, because a) nobody else was going to offer him him his current wage let alone 350k a week bar b) China, and I doubt he'd have ever wanted to go there. Now with such a huge salary it in part helps to handicap the club in not buying new players and only being in the January market for loans, as Emery has said, because they'd breach the 7% threashold, subsequently missing out on the likes of Denis Suarez, unless Barca agree to a loan which they've said they wont.

Perez was also a strange one, bought for 17 million and sold for 4mil, Wenger never seemed to have wanted him in the first place, Wilshere also left on a free, Diaby, Walcott and Rosicky were kept on the books far
too long as injury prone players or just no being good enough. Van Persie and Nasri were massively undersold and sold to a rival, none of the other top sides would have done that. Ramsey is going for nothing? or this month for peanuts in comparison to his actual worth. He should have been sold with 18 months left if he hadn't agreed a new deal by then.

Too much mismangement, but I think now it's being addressed now that Gazidis has gone, Raul is in as chief negotiator and there's a new head scout, things will get better once Unai gets all of his own players in and the all the ones's he doesn't want, out, Xhaka should be first for the exit door.
By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 18:51
The club's position with 18 months on a players contract is just not as strong as Merson supposes though. Nothing can force them to sign a new deal or take a transfer elsewhere, and their negotiating position will only get stronger as time goes on.

The only concern for the player is a serious injury that could take both options off the table for them. But this is less of an issue than in Merson's day, as these players will have £5 Million in the bank already most likely.
By:
Mr Eboue
When: 15 Jan 19 18:54
Spot on Tobermory.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 15 Jan 19 19:00
They could drop the player if he refuses to move on, which Fergie used to do with players, that way top clubs would be far less likely to take them on with no form in 18 months and other players are more in vogue, then there's also their international future in doubt and missing out on tournaments, he's retired from Germany but only recently, one thing they should never have done regardless, was to offer such an increase.

Other clubs also have had better negotiators, because which other top clubs in England allow many of their top players to have 1 year left, not many in recent times.

The future is positive imo, there's a new structure in place and I think Emery will in time succeed.
By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 19:11
How often do players end up sat in the stands because of a contract stand off ? All that does is reduce the amount another club would be prepared to pay.

Emery has been around in various jobs. long enough for us to know his level, which is the same as late Wenger level. If he is there 5 years then will finish no lower than 6th and no higher than 4th, maybe win an FA Cup or Europa, last 16 of the CL if he ever qualifies.
By:
Blackrock
When: 15 Jan 19 19:13
The running down of contracts is not easy as Tobermory says, players don't have to sign, and can run contracts down. I'd prefer players left for nothing than pay some of these players mega bucks new contracts.

You pay Ozil 350 and Ramsey says if he's on 350 i want 275. Now Ramsey could never be considered to be top draw so letting him go is the correct call.

Hopefully the new structure will support Emery in the summer window, and we can off-load some of our high earners who can't cut the mustard. But it may take a few windows to get in Emery type players.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 15 Jan 19 19:18
Exactly, they don't because they're threatened with it, so they usually end up signing a new deal or being sold, the point is, how many times do you remember a top other top clubs in Europe and England running down their contract, it doens't often happen there.

Only 3 of the starting 11 v West Ham were his own signings. Surely needs more than 5 months to be deemed not good enough.
By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 19:24
Liverpool are seen as a well run club, but they could do nothing to stop Emre Can running down his contract and leaving for free.

Emery has been a manager for 10+ years. He has a good record, but if he was ever gonna be great he would have reached that level by now.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 15 Jan 19 19:30
Emre Can wasn't a top player and has only started 6 league games for Juve this season but Arsenal's record at that is still far worse.

Unai Emery still has to be given time, his career has been an upward spiral and surely can't be judged yet.
By:
tobermory
When: 15 Jan 19 19:35
I agree he should be given the next couple of seasons now that he has been appointed, but I wouldn't have picked him and have minimal expectations.
By:
enpassant
When: 15 Jan 19 21:15
darren_discombobulates_sports ;  Ozil with no transfer fee could have got a huge signing on fee so the assertion the club was in the stronger position I think is wrong.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 15 Jan 19 21:33
if that was allowed to reach that point which was the point I was making, if with 18 months left, the player wass left with the ultimatum, (has happens at many top clubs) - 'this is the new offer/deal, accept or you'll be placed on the transfer list' - one of these two things normally happen at top clubs, there are not many big European clubs that allow their best players to run their contracts right down, and players/agents usually relent because players want to play football and are generally worried about their international place/missing out on a tournament, as well as pressure from their sponsors to be out their on the pitch.

Ozil imo is not really an Emery player, he wants players to close down, to work much harder, and dare I say that Aubameyang might not be his kind of player? he virtually walked his way through the West Ham match which was disappointing, he's done the business scoring goals but I forsee some problems ahead with him and Emery unless he works harder off the ball?
By:
enpassant
When: 15 Jan 19 22:10
Yes I think we all agree, the f..k up, has been years in the making.
If PEA is not quite his type you would think Lacca would be but Pea gets picked far more. Moreover Xhaka is so immobile, slow, poor tackler, poor short passing game, it beggars belief that he is an Emery player yet he is a standing (pun intended) dish.!
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 01:13
BREAKING: Sven Mislintat To Leave Arsenal
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 01:13
ffs
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 01:14
Wtf is going on at the club. We just shoot ourselves in the foot over and over again.
By:
tobermory
When: 16 Jan 19 01:44
Wasn't he appointed before Emery ?

Never makes sense to appoint people on the recruitment side and then choose a manager that might have totally different ideas.
By:
the fink sisters
When: 16 Jan 19 09:18
Mislintat leaving would be a blow for sure, if true. Torreira, Gendouzi and Leno all look half decent. The bean counters are running the club, clearly.

I see the old chestnut about Wenger inheriting a great defence has reared its head again. Whilst true, it does overlook the fact that the invincible defence was of his own making. I'm not saying that it wasn't time for a change by any means, but credit where its due.
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 09:41
It's being said he has been undermined by a new  appointment
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 09:43
He said to be stats based recruitment (Torreira & Geundouzi)and they want to go with the fella with club connections around Europe.
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 09:44
That seems crazy on the face of it because those 2 players alone have cost peanuts compared to their worth now in a few short months ffs
By:
the fink sisters
When: 16 Jan 19 09:52
Agree with you enpassant, plus Mislintat's record of unearthing players over the years has been stellar.
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 10:06
Some massive decisions being made by the club that need to turn out right because there will be a huge backlash if things go wrong because of them. Ozil, Ramsey, Mislintat,transfers,wages - that's a lot to take on board in such a short space of time.
By:
the fink sisters
When: 16 Jan 19 11:02
Things would have to go catastrophically wrong for any backlash to hurt the club where it counts - in the pocket - as there is still a fairly sizeable season ticket waiting list (just how sizeable depends on who you listen to).

And in the meantime the owners have the following tried and tested remedies to keep scrutiny well at bay:

* sack the manager
* restructure the senior management
* promise to spend a bit more on players 'next year'
* sack the manager
* give the youngsters a chance
* sack the manager
* sign a new sponsorship deal which can be used to recruit better players 'next year'
By:
enpassant
When: 16 Jan 19 11:20
Empty stadiums worry sponsors and 'the brand' suffers worldwide - it finally had some effect last year and helped to force Wenger out a year early. There are things that can be done I think. OK it can be said that Kroenke won't give a toss but from small acorns etc.
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