Football
Is MESSI the Greatest?
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Dutch football was the best in the 70's there were exceptional teams, he then went to Barcelona and won La Liga with them. He went to a world cup final and had a hand in every single goal the Dutch team scored on their way to the final. He also won 3 consecutive European Cups with that team from that pi ss poor Dutch League, I can see what you mean though
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what part of 3 world cups v 0 world cups do you not understand?
and messi plays for argentina not wales |
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You boys can knock the achievements of p & m all you like
but your boy messi simply has not approached their level of success |
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I'm not knocking Pele's world cup wins.
I'm just trying to get my head round you knocking Messi's achievements simply because he plays in a great Barcelona side, yet at the same time lauding Pele's achievements in a great Brazil side. |
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Maradona ran riot against the best the world could offer, and he did it at a time when players didn't get the same protection they get now. (same as Pele in that respect).
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Roger Mellie?
B0ll0cks People knock the world cup, but the latter stages, when the big boys get it on have 100 times more relevance to this debate than what Messi does to the likes of Real Sociedad |
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Honours
Barcelona La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2012–13 Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12; Runner-up 2010–11 Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013; Runner-up 2012 UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11 UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011; Runner-up 2006 FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011 Argentina Olympic Gold Medal: 2008 FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2005 Runner-up: Copa America: 2007 Third place: U20 South American Youth Championship: 2005 Individual FIFA Ballon d'Or (3): 2010, 2011, 2012. Created in 2010. Ballon d'Or (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2009. FIFA World Player of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2009. World Soccer Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008. World Soccer Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2011, 2012. World Soccer Greatest XI of All Time (1): 2013. Onze d'Or (3): 2009, 2011, 2012. No winner in 2010. IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer (2): 2011, 2012.[305] IFFHS World's best Top Division Goal Scorer (1): 2012.[306] Goal.com Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2011, 2013. El País King of European Soccer (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.[307] ESPY Best International Athlete (1): 2012. European Golden Shoe (3): 2010, 2012, 2013. UEFA Best Player in Europe Award (1): 2011. Created in 2011. UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2010. UEFA Team of the Year (5): 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. UEFA Champions League Top Goalscorer (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2010. UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2011. FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament (1): 2005. FIFA U-20 World Cup Top Goalscorer (1): 2005. FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (2): 2009, 2011. FIFA FIFPro World XI (6): 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008. ESM Team of the Year (7): 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. Pichichi Trophy (3): 2010, 2012, 2013. Copa del Rey Top Goalscorer (1): 2011. La Liga Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2010, 2011. La Liga Foreign Player of the Year (3): 2007, 2009, 2010. Ceased to exist in 2010. La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year (5): 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. LFP Best Player (3): 2009, 2011, 2012. No winner in 2010. LFP Best Forward (3): 2009, 2011, 2012. No winner in 2010. Marca Leyenda (1): 2009. Bravo Award (1): 2007. Copa América Young Player of the Tournament (1): 2007. Copa América Top Assist Provider (1): 2011 European Golden Boy (1): 2005. Olimpia de Oro (1): 2011. Olimpia de Plata (7): 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.[308] Records As of 15 September 2013. World Most FIFA Ballon d'Or awards: 4[309] Guinness World Records title for the most goals in a year: 91 goals[310] Most international goals in a year (club and national team): 25 goals (shared with Vivian Woodward)[311] Most goals scored in FIFA Club World Cup: 4 goals (shared with Denilson and Mohamed Aboutrika) Most consecutive league matches scored in: 21 matches (33 goals)[312] First footballer ever to score consecutively against all teams in a professional league[313] Europe Most European Golden Shoe awards: 3[314] Most goals scored in a season (club): 73 goals[130] Most goals scored in a year (club): 79 goals[315] Most goals scored in a European Cup season: 14 goals (shared with José Altafini)[316] Most European Cup top scorer awards: 4 (shared with Gerd Müller)[316] Most consecutive European Cup top scorer awards: 4[316] Most hat-tricks in UEFA Champions League: 4 hat-tricks[183] Highest scorer in a UEFA Champions League game: 5 goals[317] Only player to score in 20 different cities in the European Cup Argentina Most goals scored in a year (national team): 12 goals (shared with Gabriel Batistuta)[318] Spain Most away goals scored in La Liga history: 99 goals[179] Most goals scored in La Liga in a season: 50 goals[319] Most La Liga hat-tricks in a season: 8 hat-tricks[320] Most goals scored in the Supercopa de España: 10 goals Most consecutive La Liga matches scored in: 21 matches (33 goals)[312] Most goals scored in El Clásico matches: 18 goals (shared with Alfredo Di Stéfano)[321] Barcelona Top scorer in official competitions: 323 goals Top scorer in La Liga: 222 goals Top scorer in UEFA Champions League: 62 goals Top scorer in European competitions: 63 goals Top scorer in international competitions: 67 goals Most hat-tricks in official competitions: 24 hat-tricks Most hat-tricks in La Liga: 17 hat-tricks Come up with any argument you want to belittle or debate any of these accolades, but this is some set of achievements that anyone has to beat. |
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I will not have Messis La Liga wins topping what Diego did at Naples and at a stony broke Boca v moneybags River
You have to read your football history boys. I once saw an all time england xi without Stan Matthews. Beckham got his place Sheesh! |
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Here we go again!
Just remember that PELE scored twice in a WC final aged SEVENTEEN. |
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no one here can really judge because up until 20 years ago, you barely saw any football live. people go on about maradona, but based on what? world cups and some stats. they never or hardly ever saw him play for napoli.
whereas now in season you can watch messi live a couple of times a week. the world cup thing is balls, btw. the CL's a higher standard of competition, and it happens every year, with more competitive games. maradona failed in the european cup, and played in 4 world cups. he was unplayably awesome in one, crap in one, okayish in another one and thrown out of the fourth. |
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THe level of performance that Maradona put up in mexico 86 has not been surpassed by any player in world football since.
Done at the highest level, under pressure and he was the undoubted biggest single reason for Argy success. It was astonishing, even with decent players like Valdano and Burruchaga, who with the greatest will do not enter Maradona's ball park. Messi, certainly has the potential to achieve something similar. But I doubt we will see it outside of Barca, which is first and foremost a team. Messi has not convinced he can do what Maradona did without the likes of Xavi, Ini, Fab beside him. In fact I would say there was an argument to say that Xav and Ini would be higher in the top 10 than Messi |
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You want me to watch it AGAIN?
Everything is relative. Fitness etc has improved over time. What he did, he did, and helped his team become the first WC winners outside their own continent. What about the quality of opposition in 1970? Was that crap too? |
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The world cup thing is far from Balls
A game like Germany Argentina, or France v Brazil has much, much more relevance than virtually all games in the champions league. Out of last seasons tourny I would say only Dortmund v Real or Bayern would approach the intensity of the world cup |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mTnWfbXk28
My favourite player, never gets any credit but the left peg this guy had was sublime. No one scored long range goals like this bloke. Step forward Gheorghe Hagi. |
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What are we seeing here is a classic example of the recency effect. We see it in many different topics, not just football. Observe the many top 10, top 30, top 50 polls done on the greatest ever (films, sitcoms, comedians, bands, etc, etc) and you'll notice that most of the votes go to the more recent stuff.
It's just human nature. |
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Correct, Platini.
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You have to use your brain guys.
Extrapolate from what you read, what you see from match stats and stories. When you hear that German and Italian press reporters did marvel at what Stan Matthews did for england its easy to understand that no england player since has achieved the same. You can argue about fitness, but put Matthews in this day and age, with his ability and ethic and the fitness is a given. He would have been a great today, as would Pele and Maradona |
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the latarps..........i agree with you that what mar did in 86 world cup was incredible, but its just a few games...........MESSI DOES THIS 10 TIMES A YEAR EVERY YEAR. THINK ABOUT IT.
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they were saying the same thing about Zidane. And they will say the same thing about some other player in the next 10 years.
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they tell you something though, darlo, and messi's CL stats are awesome.
to win the world cup you need to win 7 one-off games, and on average 2 or 3 will be against teams that aren't all that. in 1986 argentina played s korea bulgaria and belgium - and one of the decent teams the played was italy, who they drew with. 3 of the 4 KO games they won were by one goal, one of which... well, we don't need to go over that again. |
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Pele was a World Class Player of the 60's and 70's. Messi is a World Class Player of the early 2000's 2010's. Maradona was a World Class players of the 80's, however I discount him, as he was a cheat.
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JamDav1982
For your delectation, the standard in the Swedish WC of 1958 was that bad that iirc, ENGLAND didn't win a game and failed to emerge from their group. Yep, there were SOME crap sides there. |
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JamDav, you cannot be serious
 Zidane was a genius. One of the all-time greats. And French FFS, that takes some doing. |
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You don't get it do you? They were the BEST of their time. If you could make Pele 25 y-o today, he'd be playing in Europe and blazing the trail, probably ahead of Messi.
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since they started showing wall to wall live football (ie about 20 years ago), the best three players I've seen have been messi, c ronaldo and zidane in that order.
mind you, goalkeepers and defenders never get a look in in these discussions. how do you fit schmeichel and maldini into the equation? you just can't, basically. |
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Messi does it twice a year in el clasicos.
ANd only in the semi finals of the UCL. He was injured in the bayern games last year, so GRACIOUSLY, I will allow him a pass for that. 2012 didnt do it against chelsea - again 2011 was admittedly fantastic 2010 couldnt get past Morinho 2009 did score v Man U in UCL final, but that was a phenomenal team performance and even you messi fan boys have to admit he wasnt overly influential. Just one of a team He seems like a humble guy, not really given to emotions. Not sure how the argies deal with him. Seems to me he needs talented possession midfielders around him. Think they brought Veron back a couple of years ago to try and facilitate this. I doubt Messi could play counter attack the way CR7 does with Madrid. Got to do it out of the Nou Camp boys. |
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No, it's about your age I suspect.
Buenas noches. |