Football
Is MESSI the Greatest?
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Johann Cruyff for me.
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Yes I think I could score a hat trick against Guatemala and create those chance for myself too,
The simple point I am making is - people laud messi as the greatest ever when he has only ever done it for one club that is completely built around him and as of yet - has not done for his country what Maradona did. |
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He won a world cup, messi can score as many goals as he likes in friendlies (of which there are a lot more now) and against sub standard opposition (compared to what hes used to) but if he doesn't shine in a world cup the debate will always be there, like I've said - he is great, but the greatest or better than Maradona? debatable all day long with no definitive answer
Maradona was never half as disciplined as messi, if he were.... |
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Mattheus was very good certainly, he was about as good as Yaya Toure is . Maradona was on the same level as Messi , so it's a big difference .He also was there with Brehme ,Klinsmann ,Bergomi,Zenga all of who would be considered superior to their equivalents at Napoli
There is no way anyone can seriously argue that Napoli's team were almost on the same level as Inter or Milan ,and that Maradona just made a bit of a difference .He was clearly an immense difference. |
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Hi guys
still going at it I see Thanks to tober, Geordie, plat, ayers rock - gday mate! - for fighting the good fight. And anyone else I forgot to mention. I apologise The thing with Barcelona is that its them that make Messi good, not the other way round. Their possession football can be a thing to behold tho it does look as if the Germans have found them out now. It is almost impossible to get the ball off guys like xavi, iniesta, fabregas, even busquets. They all have 90% pass completion rates which means nearly every possession will end up bearing down on the opponents goal. Its tailor made for Messi. The fact that Spain went on to win the world cup plus 2 Euros goes to show that the barca boys can do it without Leo. If you wanted to say Guardiola's Barca were the best team of all time, I would have more sympathy with that argument than the Messi one |
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Is the Pope catholic?
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Most his goals are from inside the box. Yes he's good but not as good as everyone makes out. He wouldn't score half the goals he scores in Spain if he played in the Premiership where there's actually some competition between the teams. Spanish league is a borefest.
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Has anyone seen Rayo Vallecano play? My nan would score a hatrick against them.
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Just to add, if he can set the world alight in an Argentina shirt at a major tournament then that;s the time to rate him.
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You seem to be forgetting he does it to the top European teams too in the Champions league
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What about when he plays Celtic? He never scores against them and they are crap.
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Hmmmm I take it back
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Has he really? I remember reading somewhere his record wasn't very good against them, perhaps overall record. Barcelona had no other noteworthy strikers last year that's why they struggled without him.
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If the events of May 18th 1991 had not taken place, we wouldn't even be having this debate. Not that it's a debate worth having anyway. The Brigadier v Frankel, Hendry v Joe Davis, how can the protagonists from different eras be realistically compared?
I never saw Pele so couldn't comment on him, but the Messi/Maradona argument may be best saved for when both have finished their careers - Christ knows what the numbers will look like when Messi hangs up his boots. All I do know is that in just about any other era Cristiano Ronaldo would be peerless, but right now he's generally acknowledged to be Messi's inferior. |
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"The thing with Barcelona is that its them that make Messi good, not the other way round"
Xavi made his debut in 1998 and won 1 trophy in 6 seasons before Messi arrived. Iniesta made his debut in 2002 and won 0 trophies in 2 seasons before Messi arrived. In 2 seasons together, Xavi and Iniesta won NOTHING. Then, this little Argentinian appeared in the team, making his Barca debut in 2005 and since then they've won 21 trophies in 9 seasons. It doesn't take a genius to work out which player was the catalyst for this success. |
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Ronaldiho and eto'o
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Ronny didn't win anything in his first year at Barca and Eto'o was signed the year Messi made his debut.
Anyway the point was to thelatarps who is trying to claim that Messi is only as good as he is because he has Xavi and Iniesta behind him. The history books say that's complete b*llocks. |
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and eto started the champions league final in 06 with messi on the bench, to say messi was the cataylst for barca success is wrong, ronaldinho and etoo were much more important when barca started winning trophies again in 2005/2006, messi progressed and carried it forward, it was Rijkaard who began to change things with these players
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Who had the second most assists in Spanish League last season ????
Lionel Messi. |
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Ask any Barca fan who they think has had the greatest impact on the club, Ronaldinho, Eto'o or Messi.
I think we know who the answer will be. Xavi: "If he continues like this then I think Messi will be the best player in the history of football," Iniesta: "Without a doubt, there is Messi dependence in the team in the sense that he's a fundamental player. We need to reach June with all the options to win titles. Leo is a fundamental and decisive player for us: he's the No.1.” Ronaldinho: "Cristiano Ronaldo is making history for a few years now, but I still think that it's Lionel Messi who is the current best football player in the World" Eto'o: "Messi is a god, as a person and even more as a player" |
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im not talking about biggest impact, i was talking about your 'catalyst' point.
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I'd like to see Messi play in the Premiership at some point in his career. He'll be able to improve further playing in different leagues and he could shut up the people who say he has it easy at Barcelona in a weak league.
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Well i'm not going to deny that Ronaldinho and Eto'o were great players but it's undeniable that Barca's success reached new levels once Messi appeared
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jesus wept, some of the people in this thread you wonder if they even watch football.
anybody not starting from the premise that messi and maradona are both exceptional players needs to shut up and let the grown ups sort it out. "barcelona make messi look good". christ on a bike. |
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Here is the nub of the argument
Something that self appointed geniuses like el pres and biscuit need to wise up to. Messi has failed at the world cup and the copa america If you dont see the latter stages of the world cup, ie quarter finals with Germany (lost 0-4 btw), as the highest level of the game then you have a problem. Yes Messi has proven himself in the UCL, which is also played at the game's highest level but if you cant see that Messi won the UCL with the very same players who are world champions then again you have another problem. The simple truth is Messi succeeds at UCL with Barca Has failed (so far) with Arg at World cups He cannot by any rational logic be better than Pele and Maradona who succeeded at every level they turned their prodigious talents to. |
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barcelona are great because of three players. we all know who they are. but please, MESSI IS BY FAR THE GREATEST OF TEH THREE and dont spout nonsense that those two are anywhere near him.
MESSI'S goalscoring record is there for everyone to see. ITS INSANE. messi would still be the greatest player in history without those two. no one has scored great goals in teh quantity messi has. |
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"Messi has failed at the world cup and the copa america"
messi was 19 in the first world cup and was on the bench half of teh time. he was not part of the managers plan. so please leave that one out. he still has two more world cups to come. your parameter for greatness seems to be international footbal alone. your arguement is flawed. most great players will play abut 10 meaningful international games in their career. they will play in about 60 meaningful champs league matches, in messi's case, about 100. |
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You are saying Messi is the greatest player of all time and by the looks of it you are simply going by stats - plus the fact you like me are probably not old enough to have seen the likes of Pele, Cruyff Best etc so you like me are not in a position to say who is and who isn't the greatest definitively
You can't compare era's for many reasons I can't be bothered to list but what can be talked about is what made certain players great and what gives them artificial elevation in some people's mind - and in my mind in regards to Messi it's that he has been lucky enough to have been apart of one of the greatest club sides ever seen at least in the current generations eyes - Barca donn't make Messi look good, they allow him to flourish as much as any footballer could hope for it's like I keep saying - the entire team is completely built around him and if you watch them you'd know that, it's designed to get the best from him - as thelatarps has said he is playing with many world and european cup winners. Nobody is saying he isn't great, but to say he is the greatest without question is in a word - retarded. |
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Nobby Stiles is better than Messi !!!
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nobody on this thread ever saw di stefano or puskas play a full game NAP
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'Messi has failed at the world cup and the copa america'
He has played two World Cups - was Argentinas youngest ever goal scorer in one and did not play in the game they got eliminated. In the second he was nominated as one of the players of the tournament. In the Copa American he has played two. In one he was along with Riquelme far and away Argentinas best player until getting beat by Brazil in the final and in the other he was quiet in parts but was still easily Argentinas best player. Maradona had ONE good intl tournament in almost 20 years! |
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total goals scored by messi in barcelona's 2012-2013 la liga win: 46
total goals scored by napoli in their 1986-87 serie a win: 41 |
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George Best was better than Messi.
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Very good points raised by AyersRock - statistics by themselves are meaningless - unless you have seen the players yourself then it is a pointless excercise discussing who was definitively the best - I did see Pele in 1970 and I stand by my view that he is and was the best of all but everyone has their own opinion
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