We know what you keep pointing out. Pointing that out, which could have been done with one post, seemingly hasn't been enough for you and so you keep returning with comments like the one I referred to above.

Personally I think you should walk away from this thread because you're really not clever enough to play devil's advocate without it betraying what is clearly your own point of view.

Thank you Wesdaq, for your insightful post.
Marce. I ceased my attempt at devil's advocate several pages ago. I posted to that effect at the time.
Yes, my own point of view and opinion is that any captured pilots are in grave danger of horrendous treatment. Does your point of view differ? What IS our point of view? Being appalled doesn't count as a point of view. We are all (probably all) appalled.
I have attempted to explain the rationale for thinking as I do. I have tried to get some of you to realise that this type of revenge (death...not specifically death by burning) is a normal reaction when the enemy or targeted personnel become a pilot's/aircrew's captors. It happened in Viet Nam. It happened in Germany. It probably happened in Britain. It happens everywhere...especially when the prisoners are not protected by the Geneva Convention.
I have also been asked by Glasgow Calling how I would go about sorting out the ISIS problem. Well, firstly I would try diplomatic channels, you can learn a lot by talking to people. Failing that, I'd probably go for cluster bombs rather than napalm. That's just a personal preference. Of course, the best opposition to them would be stiff resistance.

It seems to me that ISIS work along existing fracture lines in the region. They instil terror. They make good use of propaganda to achieve their aim. The tricky bit is deciding what IS their aim.

I DO wish that you might cease to see everybody who doesn't tut in harmony as some sort of terrorist sympathiser!

I agree.

You fit the bill well there jed...about the intelligence of a goldfish

naydam wrote, " well firstly i would try diplomatic channels ",   

  ....  nearly choked on my toasted teacake 

For crying pout loud, Marce! The pilot's rather gruesome end was the almost5 inevitable result of a person in his position being captured in those circumstances. How on earth can I 'believe that he deserved it'? It was simply the totally expected outcome for the situation. How else could it end?

You all call these people barbarians...we generally agree that they ARE barbarians. So why are you so surprised when they act like ****g barbarians??

Oh I don't know naydam. Maybe it's comments like this that arouse suspicion.

Or even the whether he was shot down in pursuit of his evil work.

naydom is either an extremist muslim or a sympathiser who tries to hide his true feelings behind statements like 'playing devils advocate' or whatever.
He doesn't have the balls to come out with it without the window dressing.

You haven't a clue naydam. You have no idea what constitutes a war crime.

Your true colours showing now. At least have the balls to own up to being a muslim. Mohammed naydam, sounds about right.

You should just give up naydam, before these idiots send you doolally.

jed.davison

To be fair, naydam has never said that the pilot's punishment was excusable, merely that it was sadly inevitable given his role in attacking ISIS, and their known barbarism.
If you are incapable of making that distinction, as he clearly did, then you should stick to arguing with your goldfish.



naydam

Naydam is neither Muslim nor extreme. Just plain rational.
I will confess that IF I was a Muslim and IF I was an ISIS jihadist and this Jordanian fella had been bombing the **** out of me, my family and my mates and IF I had to try to ease their suffering as they died then YES YES YES you can bet that I would have hated that bastard and I would have visualised a very sticky end for him. And that would be something considerably more memorable than a bullet in the head!
And in those circumstances, SO WOULD YOU!


You still think that Jed. Seems to me he's went beyond that with that post.

Next the ISIS apologist will be telling us that ISIS are actually misunderstood Quakers.

You are just seeing what you want to see.

I think this is pretty clear cut personally. I suppose some people have more clear vision than others.

Or even the whether he was shot down in pursuit of his evil work.

Sounds like an apologist to me.

Never considers why ISIS are being bombed in the first place and only talks of the pilot, to paraphrase, "pursuing his evil work."

That work would only be thought of as being evil if you happened to have any sympathy for ISIS.

Not sure why naydam is getting so much stick over this. Other than his initial 'devil's advocate' post, he's summed things up fairly accurately imo.

I don't think he's said there is no justification for the pilot's missions, at all. He's merely pointed out that any such downed pilot can expect a particularly grisly end. We're dealing with nutters - ISIS, not naydam :) - don't be surprised when they behave like nutters!

Apologies for spelling his name wrong - I c+p'ed from this. Stupid Independent can't manage to spell his name consistently!

Lt. Muath al Kaseasbeh
Muath al-Kasaesbeh was the Jordanian lieutenant captured and torched to death on camera by Islamist extremists. The Independent.

If IS has aspirations to be treated as a state inn its own right it should adhere to the Geneva Convention which explains how prisoners should be treated,otherwise it deserves total war without restraint.This lot are beginning to justify Radovan Karadzic actions in Bosnia.

I apologise. Please change 'evil' to 'gruesome' or 'murderous'. I am only trying to form a view based upon the likely feelings of the people on the ground, and THEY would regard his work as seriously unfriendly!
I must also confess that my comment about possibly flying aid missions was a bit naughty. I didn't think for one moment that he was a transport pilot. I have only seen one picture of the man and he was standing (posing?) in front of an F-16. I don't know for sure that it was HIS F-16 although I have a sneaking suspicion.

Now, is there anything else that you would like clarified?

Just in case it might prove relevant...I have not seen footage of this burning or, for that matter, the earlier beheadings. I'd bet that most of you have! So you are guilty of lending power to the ISIS propaganda machine. Shame on you!