AG I dislike the way people are trying to score points off you but i have a few questions if you want to answer them .
Why did Tia need or feel she needed a refuge.
You say she stayed at her step grans every other weekend, Who,s mother would this be.

Thanks,btw i feel the granny is free to shack up with however she wants to and its more the mothers role to police her daughters movements.
In any case its a very sad sorry event for all concerned

It wasn't a stable environment by any means. It would have been hard for her to grow up and break the cycle and become successful. Sadly she doesn't get the chance to prove me wrong.

I have a 11yr old daughter and I wouldn't even let her out to play in the street! So I find it hard to comprehend what kind of people would let a 12yr just go and come as she pleased to several houses stopping with various non relatives.

Hazell is the main culprit in this terrible case but they're other family members who failed Tia and need held accountable for what happened to this innocent girl.

AG, I fully expect another post defending there actions but I get the feeling you're just making this up as you go along. For someone who said they didn't know these people and had never spoke to any of them you seem to have an answer for everything.

Well, I've just spent some time catching up on this thread and I find it very sad that it seems to have taken it's present course.
Why is there a concerted attack on AG? He has aklready told you (from the start) that he only has distant connection to the people concerned.
You are all pontificating about how other people should or should not behave in circumstances which you know nothing whatsoever about. 'They should have known this and they should have known that'!
This is the real world and potential situations like this exist in every family you blinkered, puritanical plonkers!
How many fathers molest their own daughters? Sorry, should I not mention that? Were you all busy tutting at some other example?
"I wouldn't even let my 11yr old daughter play in the street"? Fine. I'm sure she's going to be a really well-sorted individual when you finally let the poor bugger breathe! I'll bet she really appreciates being firmly pinned under your wing.
Of course, in years to come we may all be saying "You could tell there was always something not quite right. It was as if he always wanted to keep her for himself...and then this happens". It wouldn't be the first time. Or the last.

I think we should all throw a few less stones and look around our own friends and family situations.
We should also stop surmising about cases like Tia's. That facts will come out in due time.

Ridsdale if you have a 12 year old daughter like you claim, maybe you should step back and be grateful and thankful that she is still alive and healthy and thank your lucky stars each and every day this occurs.  If as you suggest that you have a 12 year old daughter then you should be able to grasp some sort of inkling as too the pain and hurt that decent family members are feeling with regard to this and other horrific cases and show a bit of humanity rather than stand on your self appointed perch throwing your morals onto others.

And if it is so important for you to have your self heard maybe go out and impose your morals on the s **** that you claim live around you every day. Pathetic

What's pathetic is the way you and others on this thread are condoning the actions of the adults who failed the murdered child by not carrying out their duties of been parents or responsible guardians.

Maybe this is due to the fact that you share their beliefs, yourself been part of the of the underclass scum with no morals in life.

Peter. Your message might have been better understood if you had written 'I wouldn't let her play in OUR street'.
The way you worded it inferred (to me, anyway) any external activity.
Don't get me wrong, I DO fully understand the worry and concern that parents have regarding their youngsters, especially girls. Yours sounds like a stable family background but this is not the case in many instances.
It's just so sad that once that stability goes, whatever the reason for the initial breakup, situations like Tia's will develop. Sometimes with horrendous results.

If you can point out where I condoned anyone's action Peter I would be most grateful?

moisok, we are exactly the same, she loves reading etc and seems happy enough with not been out around where we live. She goes to my mothers after school most nights and goes out walking with her.

The school she goes to is nearly 20 miles away so its a early start for her than it would be if she went to the one 5 mins down the road but she doesn't mind as she loves it.

My only concern is a lot of her friends parents are very well off and I sometimes think when she gets a little older she might start feeling embarrassed about where she lives, social background etc.

Financially its hard, she come home last month with the latest school trip letter which is 10 days away in Norway skiing next February at a cost of £900 I couldn't say no, how can you when all of her friends are going. Me and her mother both work and any disposable income goes on her to make sure she has at least a chance of doing something with her life.

This is our choice but it breaks my heart to see these kids running around the streets, dressed like tramps, nobody knowing where they are at whilst the parents are ploughing their wages/benefits into drink, drugs & ****.

My better half was brought up in social housing but was made aware by her mum the importance of reading and doing her school work thoroughly before she had any leisure time. It paid off and she escaped the grips of the social environment, so did her brother.

Hopefully your quality parenting will pay off as well Peter.

Actually Blackburn we are about 18 miles outside of Newcastle and live in a old steel works town called Consett, the problems are not the locals as its quite a close knit community but it families that the local authorities have obviously been paid to take from other areas that cause the problem.

If they get evicted from one area they just move on to the next and cause mayhem.

You was brought up in social housing was you not? Big family of eight?

So you was one of the lucky ones to break the cycle?

At the start of the search for Tia, male family members were shaking the hand of SH and female members of the family were kissing him on the cheek, all in his support and against the press for hounding him.

How wrong they were, but this happens time and time again with family refusing to believe that person they trusted could be involved.

See they have seen all the kind things he had done for Tia over the 5 years or so. Of cause they are now simmering with rage.

So what was you saying again? Why you are using this thread to attempt to score points over me, sums you up.

Which bit are you struggling with Blacky?

it is so strange how the old values seem to come through in the olympics - work and train hard
behave yourself - discipline and self discipline - praised to the heavens by the great and good blah blah blah!!!
but mention a disciplined approach to children and you get blasted by the apologists
I note another teacher has had his career blighted by a misbehaving child
I would have cheered him all the way in his approach  but hey ho I believe little has changed and we will continue to breed vast
droves of cheerless gormless couldn't care less chavs

See they have seen all the kind things he had done for Tia over the 5 years or so.

Some could construe that as grooming????

Generally ex drug dealers dont become child killers

I would agree, but drug users can become unpredicatable at best....

I am firmly in the better safe than sorry camp here.......I do acknowledge we do have the benefit of hindsight but I also think the majority on here have the benefit of common sense and responsibility.

Ylime drinkers can become unpredictable as well. What damage is by alcohol to families. Was he using drugs and what drugs if any?

Yes he was probably grooming and a very accomplished con man. I find that thieves are accomplished liars so should we be looking at thieves as well?

You will probably find that if he was heavy on any substance it was alcohol.

Course not. So where do we stand?

Are heavy drinkers a danger to kids. I would say absolutely then.