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Vincent Tabak Trial In Running

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Replies: 451
By:
desperatemunter
When: 28 Oct 11 16:44
yes Toby ok ok - that was ages ago before the verdict and before we found out about the violent porn I take it back.
By:
desperatemunter
When: 28 Oct 11 16:46
why couldn't the 'violent porn' thing come out during trial?
By:
STEPTOES YARD
When: 28 Oct 11 16:48
suppose the thought is that watching violent porn doesnt make you a murderer as I guess many thousands watch that kind of material

Im of the opinion that jury should be told and make own mind up
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 16:50
The judge thought it would prejudice the trial, that the jurors would think he was guilty before the other evidence was heard.

I think thats dubious too .IMO if your defence was you were a decent chap and wouldn't commit this sort of offence then people are entitled to hear evidence to the contrary. Not sure Tabak had any 'character' defence though.

I don't think it was that relevant though as i just can't see how Manslaugrer can ever be a defence against murder by stangulation , as you just can't do that inadvertently, it is about the most deliberate way of killing people there is .Intent can never be in doubt.
By:
desperatemunter
When: 28 Oct 11 16:50
exactly right - watching violent porn doesn't make you a murderer. Just read the judges reasons for not allowing it and it was that word for word.   Fair enough.
By:
STEPTOES YARD
When: 28 Oct 11 16:51
its often the case with previous police charges or cautions for previous offences which sometimes arent mentioned
By:
doantwin2easy
When: 28 Oct 11 16:51
i would be interested to know why two of the jurors weren't convinced this was murder. Not having a pop, would just like to know their thought process. Would have been an interesting to be a fly on the wall.
By:
Helissio
When: 28 Oct 11 16:51
If you try and kiss a woman, and she screams, its not acceptable to start placing you hands with force around their mouth and neck. Then claim it was an accident when they die. - That should have been enough to convict him for murder.
By:
STEPTOES YARD
When: 28 Oct 11 16:53
you wonder if certain individuals love playing devils advocate in those situations

weve all come across them in life and in fact a few on this forum.

Just feel need to argue against popular and clear view of things
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 16:55
His whole defence was nonsense IMO

Suprised how many people accepted so much of it  . ''So Jo called him imside and then they were chatting.... '' And then they go on to say she may have been leading him on etc . More likely he approached her outside as she was returning or knocked on her door
By:
Easter 1916
When: 28 Oct 11 16:56
That a dig SY?
By:
STEPTOES YARD
When: 28 Oct 11 16:59
No

Didnt have anyone in mind in particular

My thoughts if any were more towards recent 9/11 threads etc
By:
Prince Akeem
When: 28 Oct 11 17:02
It seems that this information was withheld as it made him look too guilty of murder.

But I guess you want the same rules to be applied to every one. It could have conceivably bean an innocent man that had hardcore porn on his PC....
By:
mafeking
When: 28 Oct 11 17:02
yep it was so obvious that it was story concocted to try and fit the evidence against him. made no mention of it on his original police interview. the usual no comment answer to all questions which guilty people often do.

only when the tests came back showing his dna was on the body did he come up with this fairy tale.
By:
Prince Akeem
When: 28 Oct 11 17:03
been*
By:
STEPTOES YARD
When: 28 Oct 11 17:05
DNA has just completely changed everything over recent years

This guy probably could have stuck to his guns and claimed to have not gone near the girl years ago and may well have got off in court or infact no charges even brought
By:
desperatemunter
When: 28 Oct 11 17:05
anyone in mind there Prince !
By:
Easter 1916
When: 28 Oct 11 17:07
I'm not sure it's right that it's withheld either but I do think it would undoubtedly be somewhat prejudicial. I'm no expert but you're not allowed to reveal previous convictions and such, are you? Huntley's previous was considerably worse than Tabak's in that regard.
By:
Easter 1916
When: 28 Oct 11 17:08
The violent porn viewing, I mean.
By:
TELL DEL
When: 28 Oct 11 17:09
"i would be interested to know why two of the jurors weren't convinced this was murder."

surprised me too.  but apparently the judge didn't allow images found on his computer
(porn, incl women with men's hands around their necks) to be admitted to court.

don't undestand that either, this disgusting individual clearly had a secret double life,
if the jurors were allowed to consider all the facts sure it would have been
a 12/12 verdict. 

but maybe the judge confused some of the jurors with his directions
and telling them you have to decide did he intend to kill her.
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 17:14
Has there been any explanation as yet of how the police investigation was so incompetent?
By:
mafeking
When: 28 Oct 11 17:19
on the face of it seems incredible they took best part of a month to charge a killer living next door. iirc boyfriend was the prime suspect even before tabak threw the landlord into the picture
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 17:32
I also think the notion that Tabak 'implicated' Jeffries, which the prosecution - at the behest of The Police no doubt- made a big deal of in court, didn't really stack up from what i read of the evidence.

While Tabak doubtless wanted to put the landlord in the frame, from what he actually said (landlord moved his car?) he didn't do a very good job of it and hard to say why anyone would rule out Tabak and focus on Jeffries just for that. 

I think the constant stressing of Tabak's lies re Jeffries are the police's first steps in trying to squirm out of what they did to the Landlord.
By:
desperatemunter
When: 28 Oct 11 17:44
"But his big mistake was to contact the police after they arrested his landlord, Christopher Jefferies, and try to help pin the blame on him. In doing so he asked too many questions about the police investigation and roused the suspicions of the detective sent to interview him."

Amazing - as if the police weren't 'on to him' at all : until he blew by asking too many questions under the guise of being helpful to police.
By:
donny osmond
When: 28 Oct 11 17:47
seemingly he only viewed porn after the murder, so perhaps, it was justified,
By:
donny osmond
When: 28 Oct 11 17:47
that it wasnt admitted as evidence
By:
mafeking
When: 28 Oct 11 17:53
no doubt the police are highly embarrassed about what went on in the early stages of the investigation
By:
donny osmond
When: 28 Oct 11 17:56
the police have to start from scratch, the landlords cameos to the cameras rightly aroused suspicion or at least gave the police a reason to arrest him

as they had dna he would be easily excluded
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 18:03
They gave no reason to arrest him at all!!

You would only arrest someone for this if you thought he had probably done it, not just because he looked a bit odd when they had zero evidence .They knew very well what the press would do with the arrest.

Of course no matter how incompetent they were the police will get an easy ride from the tabloids, who will hardly want to cover the mistreatment of Jeffries at all.
By:
donny osmond
When: 28 Oct 11 18:06
he was hinting he knew stuff, probably to get a payment off the press

i doubt there will be any wrongful arrest complaint
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 18:15
There already is one Donny, just had to wait for the trial to end for it to proceed

As to his hinting things, from what i recall at the time these were things his neighbour (not Tabak) said Jeffries has said which the neighbour (who was in his 80s) had got wrong.
By:
donny osmond
When: 28 Oct 11 18:31
it will be interesting to see how it all turns out

i think the press went way over the top, after he was arrested
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 18:48
The newspapers have made a 'substantial' payout to him

My guess though is they would not have gone so far over the top if the police hadn't been telling them he was a 1.01 off the record.
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 18:50
The main mystery though is why they took so long to seriously consider the guy next door Confused

Does not appear he ever came up with much of an alibi, and , apart from arresting Jeffries, other staements they were making indicated they were starting to look further from the scene of crime for a suspect.
By:
donny osmond
When: 28 Oct 11 18:58
tabak seems to have been a skilled liar
By:
Helissio
When: 28 Oct 11 18:59
The press are at it again. Trying to link the fact he may or may not have used a prostitute when away on business trips to him being a bad person.
By:
tobermory
When: 28 Oct 11 19:15
Mr Jefferies, who retired from teaching in 2001, said the knowledge he was innocent only served to fuel his anger and frustration during days of police questioning.

He said: "I did start to think, 'Well, a lot of time has been wasted on an innocent person. Whoever was responsible for Jo's disappearance and murder is still on the loose and remains a danger to the public.'"

Dutch national Vincent Tabak, 33, a neighbour of Miss Yeates later admitted strangling her and dumping her body on a grass verge three miles from her home on December 17, 2010.

Mr Jefferies is now pursuing a civil case against the police for wrongful arrest and imprisonment.

He complained: "The police were not interested at all in my well-being and, indeed, all they were interested in was making a quick arrest and being seen to be doing something effective in the eyes of the public."
By:
A_T
When: 28 Oct 11 19:34

tobermory 28 Oct 11 16:38   

Yes the Huntley is innocent juror was quite unbelievable. Judges sometimes don't explain reasonable doubt so well and some people get the idea that it means scientific proof.


The judge today was reported to have told the jury they had to be "sure" that Tabak intended to kill. Maybe some of the jury thought they had to be 100% certain when of course they only have to believe it beyond reasonable doubt.

In some cases it seems the jury don't understand reasonable doubt and the verdicts reflect that.

By:
brendanuk1
When: 28 Oct 11 19:40
There must have been literally no evidence for the landlord to be arrested. Makes you wonder what goes on down the cop shop Plain
By:
danniellasmincepies
When: 28 Oct 11 20:08
The parents of Jo Yeates said they wish their daughter's killer could have been given the death penalty.
In a statement read outside court by police on their behalf, David and Theresa Yeates said they hoped Vincent Tabak's life would be "a living hell"

Mr and Mrs Yeates said: "For us it is with regret that capital punishment is not a possible option for his sentence.
"The best we can hope for him is that he spends the rest of his life incarcerated where his life is a living hell."

The trial had been "more stressful and intense than we ever imagined", the couple said.
"There was never any doubt in our minds that Jo had been murdered and we fully expected [Tabak] to lie when he went into the witness box," their statement added.

We so miss hearing her happy voice and seeing her living life to the full”
"We came here with little hope or expectation of hearing what happened on 17 December but needed to see him and hear what he had to say first hand.
"We saw no emotion or remorse or regret for what he did to Jo. We felt all emotion expressed by him was false. All we heard were words of self-pity."

Mr and Mrs Yeates said: "We have still lost our daughter and our son has lost his sister.
"Our main sorrow is that Jo isn't allowed to start her own family, have children and achieve her potential.

"We will never get over our loss, how she was murdered and the total lack of respect with which her body was treated.

Miss Yeates's parents thanked people for letters and cards they had received, and for the physical tributes that have been made in commemoration of Miss Yeates which they said "touched us to the core".
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