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9/11 was it a conspiracy?
9/11 was it a conspiracy?
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Replies: 2,876
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I thought we were talking about (non)Operation Northwoods Gene :-)
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Nope masher?
What was he alluding to then? I'm confident that you can go out there on the internet and find out what the 'big lie' Hitler was referring to was about. And then you can compare that 'big lie' to the vast fantasies conspirnauts have about 9/11. I know yo can do it. I know you will not take being bullsh1tted lying down. PS. Northwoods was the musings of the military at the height of the Cold War. The military is not the US government. When the musings reached government, they were summarily rejected and the Chief of Staff subsequently transferred to NATO in Brussels. All this you can find on the internet too. |
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We are.Surely you're not using the fact that JFK rejected Northwoods,as evidence that the US would never carry out any similar operation?
Such as The Gulf of Tonkin,for example. |
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I'm pointing out that even forty odd years ago, when the US government was so secretive that Carter could get away with a string of affairs, it wanted nothing to do with such a plan. If, in an age when the President choking on a bagel gets reported, it's pretty much impossible to believe they'd want to get involved in such a plan!
Gulf of Tonkin type incidents remain possible of course. |
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masher
It is nearly 11pm and I have been drinking strong continental beer. FFS Just tell me what he was alluding to. |
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search "Northwoods" redirects here. For the forests of the subarctic, see Taiga and Boreal forest. Operation Northwoods memorandum (March 13, 1962).[1]Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a false-flag plan that originated within the United States government in 1962. The plan called for Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other operatives to commit genuine acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which the US had recently labled as communist under Fidel Castro. One part of the Operation Northwoods plan was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington." |
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`Originated within the United states government`
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I know it's not a competition Gene, but I had my first drink at 10.20am today! A proper tramp I looked too!
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masher
It is nearly 11pm and I have been drinking strong continental beer. FFS Just tell me what he was alluding to. No, it's for your own good. Do it tomorrow. When you're doing that, I'd be grateful if you would look into something else for me. There were two Gulf of Tonkin incidents (actually there were three, but we won't bother with that). The first was a very real attack by the North Vietnamese and the second was the US Navy shooting at shadows. I've never been able to discover why the US did not simply use the first very real attack to justify the things conspiranauts say were justfied by the second non-attack. If you can find out, I'd be grateful. |
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I wouldn't have thought that look uncommon around The Pots.
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Ok masher,I looked.He was on about the jews telling lies.I understand.
That doesn't make what he said about lying and deception any less true though does it? He had perhaps learned,from the jews,about telling "big lies"? Every government since learned it too. |
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Northwoods, was a false-flag plan that originated within the United States government in 1962.
Sorry, that's nonsense. It was never a plan. Northwoods musings were presented as a basis upon which to drawn up if it was considered to be a good idea to do so. It got rejected. |
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How do you know that Masher...maybe you should correct Wiki
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*Should read* basis on which to draw up a plan if it it was considered a good idea to do so.
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Gene Hackman
Pandy Are you going to tell me why Hitler shouldn't be quoted or not? If you want to quote a homicidal, drug addled maniac in terms you feel favourable to your point of view, then you go right ahead. The rest of us will draw our own conclusions. |
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If you say so Masher
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How do you know that Masher...maybe you should correct Wiki
Very easy. Don't be a sheep(  - read the source document. Goodnight all. |
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Pandy
So,because I ask why Hitler shouldn't be quoted,that makes me a Nazi does it? Very strange. Perhaps George Orwell was really a nazi when he made reference to Mein Kampf in his essays? masher It wasn't a plan....it was just "musings".....you didn't used to write for Yes Minister did you? |
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Gene Hackman
Pandy So,because I ask why Hitler shouldn't be quoted,that makes me a Nazi does it? And I think says something about your mental state. Exactly where did I accuse you of being a Nazi? |
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By "The rest of us will draw our own conclusions," I was referring to a total lack of good judgement, not your political leanings.
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So,because I ask why Hitler shouldn't be quoted,that makes me a Nazi does it?
Very strange. Perhaps George Orwell was really a nazi when he made reference to Mein Kampf in his essays? Ah, so suddenly quoting Orwell gives you credence? |
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No. Quoting Orwell means he's an aspidistra.
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A lot of fuss has been made about those quotes. As far as I was concerned, they were intended as reminders of our propensity both to deceive and be deceived. I could have quoted Jesus, Machiavelli, Shakespeare or countless others. Credulity can be a dangerous thing.
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Pandorica Joined: 10 Jul 10
Replies: 8 04 Sep 10 20:36 Sometimes things really are exactly as they appear. They don't need to come with fantasy attached. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't weigh you up Pandy. With your Dr.Who inspired name and your fondness for quoting Douglas Adams I would have thought that fantasy was your big thing. |
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I can separate reality from fantasy. I find it a helpful skill.
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Anyway,Pandy,explain to me why I or anyone else shouldn't quote Hitler or Orwell(or any other historical figure).You can hardly accuse me of using people from similar philosophies can you,or is it just those two that we shouldn't be quoting?
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I can separate reality from fantasy. I find it a helpful skill.
Have you ever considered that others create your reality from fantasy. We unwittingly accept information as truth from an early age from our education system, our parents know no different as they have been through the same system. Yet independant historian scholars who have studied the origins of wars and the connection with the financial elite, would say our perception of historic reality is actually fantasy. |
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Has anyone seen the De Niro/Hoffman film Wag the Dog? An interesting satire.
I think it was Chomsky who said question absolutely everything you hear on the news and you will be closer to the truth. No matter how difficult it is to believe that 9/11 could have been carried out by the US Govt, in the light of everything else that they have done over the years, it is equally ridiculous to say that it is impossible imo. |
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Noam Chomsky?
Hve you checked with Pandorica that it's ok to quote him? |
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Very true Tiptheodds
When the time comes, the government through the news will tell everybody to turn left, this could be the time for us all to turn right. Or will it be a double bluff!  |
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I share Chomsky's views on 9/11, except I'm interested to see he characterises conspiracy theories as coming from the left-wing, I'd have thought they were more libertarian.
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Non conformist to government views, Liberterian or just very aware.
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Does Chomsky mention Mossad involvement in his summorising of the 9/11 cover up. I know he doesnt believe that the US Government could cover up anything of this magnitude.
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No.
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To answer your latest question Gene - you can quote whoever you want. At the same time, anyone reading this thread can make form their own opinions as to the validity of the quotes used in this context - which is what I did.
Similarly, readers can form their own judgements whether this 'conspiracy theory' is a textbook case of clearly intelligent people engaged in basic confirmation bias; or whether the United States Establishment, (who could neither supress the news of 5 burglars breaking into a hotel room, nor that of an old bloke leaving sperm stains on a dress), could carry out the mass murder of its own civilians in broad daylight under the gaze of the world's populace without leaving a trail of evidence as wide as the Mississippi. I have made the aforementioned judgement and come to the unremarkable conclusion; it's the former. |
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Fair enough Pandy.I think it's a mistake though to assume because they can't keep some things quiet - Watergate and Clinton as you mention - that it naturally follows that they can't keep anything quiet.
For example,anyone who thinks because we found out that Lord Snooty was claiming expenses to have his moat cleaned out, that we are an open and transparent democracy,is wrong imo. |
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I can keep quiet, from my partner, that I have a soft spot for fig rolls. I couldn't do the same for an affair. It's a question of manageability and scale.
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Fair enough Pandy but on the other hand i find it incredible how incompetent US defence security was on 9/11. That in itself is unbelievable.
Almost more believable is that it was a Mossad false flag attack to create an everlasting war on terror, and to point the finger at those who defy the NWO. |
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I think it's a mistake though to assume because they can't keep some things quiet - Watergate and Clinton as you mention - that it naturally follows that they can't keep anything quiet
It must also be a mistake therefore,to assume that 'it naturally follows' that hawkish memoranda from the military in 1962 (forcefully stamped on by head of the executive) outlining actions against their own citizens, are irrefutable proof of the state's willingness to murder thousands on 9/11, 39 years later? |
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1500 soon
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