But the thing to think about is this. The London Tube bombings are commemorated every year. People grieve, etc. Do the newspapers accuse Londoners of wallowing in their grief?

Any large loss of life is similarly commemorated. Yet only one place is accused of wallowing in grief (whatever that means, btw!).

shab.
You come accross as a typical scouser.

All this excessive wallowing in grief isn't just a Scouse thing. We see enough of it here in Scotland, too. When local footballer, Davie Cooper died suddenly of a burst brain artery, the media coverage and working class grief wallowing went completely over the top. Nearest thing I've seen to a state funeral up here, with all sorts of folk who'd never even met him stepping out to touch the hearse as it passed, looking suitably grief stricken. It's not about grief, actually. It's about being demonstrative about what a deeply caring, right minded human being you are. Basically, it's more of a personal PR thing than anything else, with some folk seeing it as a competition to outdo the next guy. That, and rubbernecking.

The Steve Irwin thing in Australia was another that springs to mind.

not seen any proof on here,a bit of quoting "wiki" doesnt mean jack.

wallboy,
I don't know the facts of the chicken case, but if you believe that, you are truly fodder for the media.

The police - they cordoned off the street, and 12 (TWELVE) people had fresh flowers at the scene. Do you not find that a bit odd - well you do, that's why you mention it.

How long were the police there? Many hours obviously.

Nobody questions why so many police officers were there (theremust have been loads) for most of the day if it was obviously a chicken. How STUPID are the police/

But nobody asked that question because the police put out a deflection story. Where have we seen that before?

we were discussing reasons why people have a go at scousers,then it was hijacked by boro,then that was defended,what are the 5 stages of grief,i knew from the opening post we would end up discussing pool as victims once again.

[i]pool as victims[/i

Look and you shall find.

isn't even creating this thread a bit of a proven point that scousers feel its everyone against them.. that its only them that have fun made out of them etc etc

The point of the thread was that peolple who have a go at scousers very rarely have actually been there, and make up their minds based on prejudiced media reports that are very often one-sided and sometimes just plain lies.

The comments on this thread actually back that up to some extent.

as i said earlier you do not need to go to pool to have an (low) opinion of them,the opinions can be formed when they are met/live outside of pool,unless the magicaaly transform once back within sight of the liver building.

So you have known about 10 scousers in your life, (and those were people working in intermittent, transient type jobs were 'drifter' types are likely to work) and you base your opinion that the other half a million must be the same?

I give up.

dont worry shab i gave up trying to have reasonable discussions about these things with scoucers years ago. your reaction to everything thats been said here will tell you why that is

i have known plenty,still work nearby,out of our work force,only 15,12 are scousers,2 cant read,write or add up properly(but are decent lads) 3 are gobby "typical scousers", the rest are ok,even though some of the rest are from,skem etc so not really scousers.

it couldn't be you shab

but its about scousers,others opinions/impressions of them,i would never expect a scouser to put anything down whicj is "scouse",scousers opinions of themselves dont really count in this thread,it would be a bit like tukeys voting for christmas,
and on that note i leave you to have the last word,enjoy.

I'm not meaning to have a pop, shab. My "typical scouser" remark was aimed at your defensiveness.

A few points however.

1. I do live in Liverpool
2. The McCann's are not from Liverpool, but the Garandma is, and there are posters and ribbons all over ther place round here, still.
3. There is a case for arguing that 100's of drunken Liverpool fans pushed in to an already packed stand at Hillsborough, and that this caused the problems, yet this is never considered as a factor.
As for it being the "biggest loss of life in decades". It definitely wasn't.
Ibrox had a similar tragedy in 1971, but I'm sure Glaswegians didn't still have the emotional outpourings you get here 20 years later.
4. I have never heard anyone mention Heysel.
5. The assertion that people in Liverpool would admit to being on benefits whereas others would be embarrassed signifies that you think scousers are different to others, in contradiction to your general argument.
6. I haven't even started mentioning all the over 'made up' orange women in their short skirts/legging 1/2 of whom are pushing a pram. imo you pick a scouse girl out of a lineup.
7. Considering the size and population of the place, there seems to be a disproportionate regularity and rate of serious crime, of the types I mentioned earlier.
8. Given that it was much more recent and has more far-reaching potential effect (terrorism, links to Madrid, Bali, New York etc) The 'London Bombings' are nowhere near as 'commemorated' as Hillsborough.
9. Not many famous "Scousers" live in their home city. (as was mentioned early in the thread)

The stereotypical view af all things Liverpool might seem unreasonable and unfair to you, but as an outsider here, I can honestly say there is an easily recognisable element within it.
Not that other places don't have problems, they do. I grew up in one of the worst places in the country, but - and lets forget about what we see on a night out in town (this doesn't represent a cross-section of society as a whole) - I still believe it was better than here, now.
If this doesn't fit in with your view, there's nothing I can say or do about it, we'll have to agree to differ. I'd still have a pint with you :)

Someone has even managed to get in a dig at Scousers on the "best piece of advice you've ever been given" thread.

Fwiw Shab seems to be a decent and articulate chap that speaks a lot of sense on this thread.
Studyform who lives in Liverpool but is an out of towner also makes some relevant points.On the Hillsborough thing:I too have said from that day that some supporters have blood on their hands after showing no consideration at all for those that were already in the ground.
Another point:Scousers(ok not all of them) do seem to have no awareness that other people exist and may not approve of their behaviour.

Hi Study. I'll give a response to your points, which I hope you will see as not some kind of excuse, but maybe as an alternative view.

1. I do live in Liverpool

You said that earlier in the thread. I'm guessing that you are a student?


2. The McCann's are not from Liverpool, but the Garandma is, and there are posters and ribbons all over ther place round here, still.

Does the grandma live near you? If so, do you not see that it is a community sticking together and letting the grandma know that everybody is still thinking of her? That's 'community spirit' - you southerners still don't get it!

3. There is a case for arguing that 100's of drunken Liverpool fans pushed in to an already packed stand at Hillsborough, and that this caused the problems, yet this is never considered as a factor.

As I said above, there were many reasons, and many people to blame. The official reports, btw, said there was no evidence of the Liverpool fans being drunk. Those planted stories again. Coppers, eh?

As for it being the "biggest loss of life in decades". It definitely wasn't.

I can't think of one single incident where more than 96 people died in this country. But you missed the point. If 96 MPs had died, or 96 members of the royal family had died, would the evidence have been lost?

Ibrox had a similar tragedy in 1971, but I'm sure Glaswegians didn't still have the emotional outpourings you get here 20 years later.

I'm afraid you are wrong. You should use Google a bit more!
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/memorial-to-ibrox-disaster-planned-1.645784
A PERMANENT memorial to the 66 Rangers supporters who lost their lives in the Ibrox disaster 25 years ago is to be erected by the club

4. I have never heard anyone mention Heysel.

But why should they unless the conversation warrants it? It's hardly something you chat to somebody about whilst standing at a bus stop, is it?

5. The assertion that people in Liverpool would admit to being on benefits whereas others would be embarrassed signifies that you think scousers are different to others, in contradiction to your general argument.

I think scousers are generally more open about themselves. When I lived in Liverpool, I would tell anybody who asked me anything about myself, eg, my salary, etc. Only when I moved away I realised that doing that was not seen as 'normal'.

6. I haven't even started mentioning all the over 'made up' orange women in their short skirts/legging 1/2 of whom are pushing a pram. imo you pick a scouse girl out of a lineup.

Having travelled around this country a bit, I still think Liverpool birds are up there with the best;-) But then, I'm biased. Have you ever been to Leeds? Or Sunderland? You might get a shock!

7. Considering the size and population of the place, there seems to be a disproportionate regularity and rate of serious crime, of the types I mentioned earlier.

Liverpool has the lowest crime rate of the 5 metropolitan areas in England (well it did a few years ago - I don't know latest figures). Although the level of crime might be high, it seems to be no higher than any other city in the UK. Serious crime? Like shootings? London and Manchester are streets ahead.

8. Given that it was much more recent and has more far-reaching potential effect (terrorism, links to Madrid, Bali, New York etc) The 'London Bombings' are nowhere near as 'commemorated' as Hillsborough.

But you live in the city. Of course there will be more commemorative things in the city each anniversary. The still read every name out in New York every year. It's what people do. Everywhere.

9. Not many famous "Scousers" live in their home city. (as was mentioned early in the thread)

The city has problems. I was one who left in the early 90s due to the lack of work. From what I can tell, the city still suffers from a lack of opportunities for anybody with any talent. So there is no decent paying jobs. So people with any ambition continue to leave. The sprial needs to be stopped, and only central government can do that - so it won't happen. Also, any company thinking of relocating to Liverpool will have read the Sun, so will think everybody is a robbing thug. Would they still come if that is the impression they have been given?

The stereotypical view af all things Liverpool might seem unreasonable and unfair to you, but as an outsider here, I can honestly say there is an easily recognisable element within it.

I don't mind critisism of the place, as long as it is balanced and fair. Saying that all scousers are thugs because I went into a pub once and got a funny look is laughable, really.

It has problems, mainly stemming from the lack of work and poverty. But there are also many lovely places in the city, and nice people, as I'm sure you will agree.

If this doesn't fit in with your view, there's nothing I can say or do about it, we'll have to agree to differ. I'd still have a pint with you

I don't think we do differ that much about what is happening in the city. It's just how we perceive that, and whether we see an incident as some kind of statement of the inhabitants generally, or as an isolated incident by an individual.

I've been to liverpool twice. The first time I went on a night out and saw 3 people lying in the street with blood pouring from them (all different locations). I saw only one fight though.

the second time I went to scally fields festival. 4 people tried to pick pocket me. I can honestly say I have never been so happy to see 100 coppers when on drugs. As I left the event there were a shed load of very angry looking men and even though I was pilling my nuts off I was very happy to see the filth.

Liverpool scares the shyt out of me.

some people, tbag, are just lucky enough to have those opportunities fall to them at the right time and in the right way aren't they!