racecwill be so much more fascinating,especially after the season he has had.

All the hype around Altior is a good thing as people will no doubt back it into favourite and leave bigger prices for the rest.
I have my doubts if Altior will ever win a decent race again. He scared off many potential rivals in recent years, who dodged him, or stepped up in trip, which had Altior winning weak races.
It’s happened before where a horse who steps up in trip, is never the same again, even when going back to the previous distance it was so sucessful in.
Chacun Pour Soi needs it like a road in my opinion, and won’t get that at Cheltenham who will drench the track watering it if we have a dry ten days beforehand. Mullins also has a poor record in the race which won’t help preparations.

I don’t understand why the Irish chasers have to prove themselves any more than the British ones. The only chaser with ANY sort of chance imo with CC pedigree form the brits is Altior.  Previous CC placed horses are way off the pace this year.Until recently DDS was a 2 an half miler. The last time UDS ran over two miles at the festival was  2016.  waiting patiently has been a 2 1/2 miler. Janika a 2 1/2 miler. Let’s face it Britain does not have any strength in depth over 2 miles hence why all the 2 1/2 milers are throwing their hat in the ring. The only time DDS ran against one of the younger 2 mile Irish chasers he got convincingly beaten by a horse that has been subsequently beaten by a different young Irish chaser.

I understand races like tingle creek are prestigious but the names of the races are just that names. If UDS takes them on in Dublin he will get Beaten by quicker horses in my opinion.  By definition younger chasers have more to prove because they are young it kind of comes with the territory having something to prove because of lack of opportunity is a very different thing from having something to prove because they have had opportunities and not taken them.

That’s not you Budd that’s the British media

Yeh,fair points re the Brits having to prove themselves also,and horses lacking the opportunity.
I do think DDS is a quicker horse this season and his jumping for 2m chases has improved.
Yes,his two Grade 1's this season have been beating a 12 yr old, and we cannot be sure quiet how good he is now,but he for me looked better yesterday than at Sandown,so certainly improving and come March I would think more improved.
I don't look at end of season form too much for the following Festival,so not too bothered re DDS and CPS.
(Although I did enjoy the beating UDS gave Douvan!!!)

Out the two of them now though,i think DDS, on what I have seen this season, is the more likely to win the QM.
Having said that I do recognise we are talking about horses that will improve for experience, and in the case of APT,he is at an age where you could see much improvement. Personally think APT will prove to be the main threat of the Irish.
So all in all then you are correct Sophie,it is a fascinating race with or without Altior, and that's mainly because the fancied horse are all unexposed to certain degrees......aside from Altior,and as said before he brings his own fascination because of the doubts surrounding him.
Blimey, im really getting excited about the QM now!!!

anywhere online i could find the pricewise write up for this years  champion chase ? would be much appreciated .

Don't post much these days but this decent thread has sparked me into life.

First yesterday's race, I don't think it would have been much closer if UDS had jumped the second last better nor do I subscribe to the idea that UDS was closing at the finish - technically he was I suppose but only because Geraghty spent most of his time after the last looking under his armpit, Defi was just kept up to his work.

However, I do think that Defi won so easily that you have to question whether UDS ran his race - the first real signs of regression maybe or perhaps an underlying issue? No doubt it will all come out in the wash but I'd be surprised if we see him at the Dublin Racing Festival.

Never mind being favourite I do wonder whether Defi might even be running in the Queen Mother by default. The two open Grade 1s he's won over 2 miles have basically been matches with UDS (to my eye Waiting Patiently was n't asked for an effort in the Tingle Creek until it was too late).

If Altior had run in either the Tingle Creek or the Clarence House or both they'd have a better idea where they truly stand. In fact given he did n't have a hard race yesterday, I'd be sorely tempted to take Altior on in the Game Spirit to make sure they're targeting the right race at the Festival.

To me, they should still give the Ryanair serious consideration - he won the JLT over almost the same CD last year when he did n't win either of his novice chases over the minimum trip (although there could be mitigating circumstances in both cases). So there is a plausible case that he's won 2 open Grade 1s over the shorter trip due to his class and a lack of credible opposition (actually he might have emphasized his superiority yesterday primarily because the race was on heavy ground and a stiff track over nearly 17f as opposed to 15.5f in the Tingle Creek).

The Ryanair would be the ideal stepping stone to a Gold Cup attempt in 2021 or 2022.It's tough to call a Gold Cup winner this far out but I would n't be surprised if he was one of the market leaders by the time the 2022 renewal comes around. His pedigree is replete with stamina and he is like a slightly classier version of Tiger Roll (which is not meant to denigrate Tiger Roll in any way).

Apologies for the long post.

hes a million to run in the Ryanair why would you

possibly depends on other horses,if altior and chacun pour soi look good on their next run and a plus tard runs in this the ryanair looks quite weak,also the softer the going more chance the champion

I think this is turning into the race of the festival. Anyone backing DDS at this point is mad given how open the race is. There are so many horses open to imrpovement in Ireland APT,CPS, Cilaos Emery I guess the Dublin racing festival will help make that a big clearer. You also have a few wild cards who have the talent to feature in this although may not run Cyrname,Douvan Dynamite Dollars.

Going on ratings alone Altior is currently rated 7lbs higher than DDS that puts in context the improvemnt DDS may need to find to win a champion chase. You can definitely pick holes in the form and the horses he's beaten this season. For what it's worth I think he would bolt up in the Ryanair I don't see why after winning the JLT last year over 2m 4f they don't stick to that distance in what will be a massively weaker race.

I don't think Altior will win the CC but agree he might make the market.

If DDS were mine, and I have never owned a Festival winner, I would run him in the Ryanair.

He is a proper horse and I hope he jumps round and wins the CC.  But it is usually a hell of  a test of jumping, and that would worry me a bit.  He was pretty low at a few on his latest run, and I worry if he clips the top of one at pace.  I hope not, because if he jumps nicely in the CC, and Barry has no brainwaves, I think he might dot up.

Just because the Ryanair may be the easier race,that' by no means that they should go for that race,although conditions on the week may decide that.
I think what's more to the point,is the campaign he's having,which would be down to talks between connections before the season I would think.
They are obviously to me looking at the QM,and he's now proving himself good enough to win 2m chases,and perform like a 2m chaser.

If they are happy with the horse come March,I just cannot see a horse that wins top 2m races,should then miss the top 2m race to run in the Ryanair.
Owner would not want a scenario wondering what if,especially as he's never won the race as I recall.
Just cannot see any race but the QM.
Even if Altior hacks up at Newbury,I think they would relish the challenge with their improving 2m chaser.

Well as always time will tell, but its great having these opinions and thoughts coming out on a thread that is just how i like a thread to be, full of reasoned comments.
Wish I had 20 for the QM!!!
Sadly for me I have no nice odds on any of the fancied runners,in fact I dont think ive had a bet on the race,aside from my sentimenmtal pennies on UDS,which is unusual for me at this stage.
So it bet on the day for me now I think.

By the way I am not saying this will be a sentimental decision, but like you say MS,it may become a tie breaker,with the owner thinking its that close lets go for the race I WANT to win more.
Fact is he is running over 2m this season, so they are thinking QM as a real possibility, so that makes me hopeful he runs,and for me the thought of him and hopefully a healthy in form Altior taking on the up and comers from Ireland gets my blood pumping!!

Your desire for DDS to run in the CC is matched I believe by a majority of racing fans ( at least the British ones for sure)It is clear much of the excitement surrounding the race over here  is based upon his involvement and the potential battle with the young Irish chasers. I wonder if the perspective is the same in Ireland or are they more excited at the prospect of the young Irish chasers locking horns in Dublin. Whether the Dublin race will heighten or lessen our anticipation of the QM only time will tell. I guess another way of putting this is if it wasn’t for DDS the QM would be Dublin the sequel. (Accepting Douvan and Altior could come into the mix and spice it up a little).

The connections of DDS however do not have an obligation to the public and should and imo will do what they believe is right for them and the horse no matter how much we want it.

Like you Budd I hope he runs in th QM I am not saying you but many think it is close to inevitable that he will. I am thinking it is more likely he will but far from inevitable.

The racing debate even had a poll on what race he should run in ...... for what purpose only they know but presumably in the hope that connections would be influenced by the result. Otherwise quite honestly why bother? I wonder if this would be so public if DDS was owned by a small owner or if under those circumstances people would be more sympathetic if they chose to take a potentially softer option. In other words because the owner has already had lots of Cheltenham wins he should do what the public wants and at the same time reenforce where the QM comes in the pecking order I.e above the intermediate race.

Marracudja has been given a rating of 154. Utterly ridiculous imo and a whole stone above his highest ever winning mark. This despite the trainer of the runner up stating that his horse under performed. The winner didn’t have to get out of second gear and we are starting to understand why ..... perhaps it was marracudja that ran to his mark, UDS way below his and DDS took advantage and cruised home. This form imo should come with a government health warning.

Ordinary world was put up 5 pounds  to a mark of 152 after receiving an rpr of 160 for his 3rd to APT. Maraudja received an rpr of 155 and has been put up to 154. Some (3 pounds) of his rise was due to hawk high winning when in his box the remaining 8 from his run Saturday. I understand the ratings either side of the sea aren’t completely comparable but seriously..........

I think he'll run regardless of what happens in the Dublin race and whatever does happen in that race it isn't going to really alter what those horses have to prove on the big day itself, another small thing that also now nudges DDS toward the CC is the fact that Le Richebourg ( who I was looking forward to see again) is absent from the decs and is likely to have suffered a setback I guess.

It's not as if there is a 1/3 shot heading the market, even if they have a sneaky suspicion he isn't top class at the trip they'd also have to be suspicious of the opposition quality too.

APT is no certainty to run in the race also, de Bromhead favours the Ryanair and on balance from a DDS point of view I'd probably fear him more in the longer race than the shorter one.

Ok I will stick my neck out. If one or more horses run to a level in Dublin  that connections of DDS believe he is unlikely to be able to match I think he will run in the intermediate. I don’t think the owner not winning QM or LR no longer running will have any bearing at all in the cold light of day. I believe their initial excitement over Saturdays race will have been tempered significantly as it dawns on everybody including them what a sub standard race it really was (despite the media and bha trying to convince everybody otherwise)

I think the first race against UDS is a better benchmark and imo that performance was not good enough to have won the APT/CPS race and I am expecting the Dublin race to raise the bar even more. If it doesn’t yesi would unreservedly expect him to run in the QM

I think the initial reaction after saturdays race was very positive but perhaps  people are now realising that he didn’t need to get out of second gear not because he is a superstar but because UDS under performed. The trainer of the third is telling us all how bad a race it was. Yes he might appeal but he has nothing to gain from criticising the BHA so openly after the event so I for one believe him. If he does appeal I think he will win.

Fair points Milton, but I’ve honestly written CPS off due to needing good ground to be at its best, plus Mullins poor record in the Champion Chase.
I don’t think APT is a two miler and got lucky beating CPS at Christmas due to finishing nearer the crowd, which is traditionally quicker than the rail that many leaders on the chase track stick to, after jumping the last.

It’s only my opinion though, and I’ve got egg on my face before ;)

If I was forced to pick one of the front 3 at the current prices I would plump for CPS as I am more swayed by him and connections thoughts on him, Mullins were generally needing their first runs at the time and he looked like he blew up to a degree, however that's a different point in question as to whether DDS should run in the race. There's always the Melling Chase to fall back to if it doesn't work out which is a high profile race in its own right at the longer trip.