Cheltenham Festival
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champion hurdle 2017
champion hurdle 2017
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I think any mare over 6 yrs old that has won the Mares Hurdle and/or run in the Champion Hurdle must not be allowed to run in it again; the Mares Hurdle is a very soft race, and must be manipulated by connections to suit - it is bad for racing.
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The festival has just been fortunate that it has had some very decent mares to contest it over the years, imagine the stick it would get if every year was similar to Whiteoak's year.
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fortunate or unfortunate? quevega, annie etc being diverted away from the championship hurdle races takes away from the meeting imo, not adds to it
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I would have no problem if the festival was reduced to 2 days or even 1 - just too many races these days - but I'd keep the Mare's Hurdle. Its the only new race that should have always been there.
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I firmly believe the Mares Hurdle race must not be exploited (but it has been recently by Mullins/Ricci), if so, the race ought to be scratched from the Cheltenham Festival programme.
Personally, I have never backed a runner in the Mares Hurdle given it is such a non-event race, similarly for the foreseeable future. |
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firstimevisor - I can understand the case for a 3 day festival but to suggest 1 is just the height of stupidity, not feasible, not welcome, not happening, ever.
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mares grade 3 handicap hurdle 0-145, open to novices if they are rated high enough and want to run in it
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wondersobright
08 Mar 17 16:32 fortunate or unfortunate? quevega, annie etc being diverted away from the championship hurdle races takes away from the meeting imo, not adds to it It's fortunate because the winning mares that have run in the race have served to give the race "in isolation" some credibility, without them this race "in isolation" would be a complete farce. However, does the existence of the race take away from the festival as a whole, absolutely yes, as does, may I add,the Ryanair and the JLT. To varying degrees, the issue created by these two races are the same as the mares, because they take away from other championship races. |
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Keep your hair on Charlie it's hardly going to happen. But if it were a proper olympics we would need only 1 novice hurdle, 1 novice chase, no handicaps, no bumper, no cross country chase,no ryanair. It would fit into 1 day. On the other hand if the current 4 days were split up into 4 x 1 day meetings with a 3 week gap between them then we would have lots and lots of multiple winners. Just saying
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Duffy
Personally think the JLT and the Ryanair could produce very good races this year. They are certainly intriguing,and I am looking forward to both. The Queen Mum has been rather uncompetitive for some time now,even before the Ryanair existed,so I for one am glad another race is there to enjoy. |
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good answer duffy
iyo would a grade 3 hcap hurdle 0-145 for mares be credible ie it is serving its purpose of providing an opportunity for mares (for the good of the breed etc) whilst it is pretending to be something that it is not ie a genuine grade 1 don't get me wrong, I enjoyed quevega's domination but as I previously said much much prefer to see mares of that class in the championship races |
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*it is not pretending to be something that it is not
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But wonder, the Mares Hurdle is a championship race, and 50% of the equine population are mares
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There is no restriction on the sex of the runner in the Ryanair (seasoned campaigners) and JLT (novices) unlike the Mares Hurdle where mares are only allowed to run thus not a valid comparison.
I think the Mares Hurdle does not warrant a place in the Cheltenham Festival programme but the other two are, JLT more so than the Ryanair (just). |
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Any race that exists that enables connections to escape the clutches of other horses thus not providing a greater spectacle should be culled. With the rise of the super owner with more runners in fewer yards and their satisfaction at winning "a race" at the festival, rather than "the race" at the festival, the existence of the extra halfway house races have been manna from heaven, although perhaps not from heaven
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"It is not pretending to be something that it is not"
The Mares Hurdle pretending to be the Mares Champion Hurdle ie a "fake" Grade 1 race. If so, I'm not fooled by it one little bit; it is not even a competitive handicap race for mares only! |
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Yes Duffy but the creation of a 4 day festival creates any number of races to divide up the best horses. It wont be long till there's a 5th day. It will happen.
Nobody should blame the connections... its the system thats wrong - not the owners and trainers |
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championship mi arse
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if the normal ratings criteria was applied to the mares hurdle then it would be bye bye grade 1 and hello grade 3 (at best)
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Well the Ryanair produces the greater spectacle lately,probably because of the lack of quality 2 milers.
Every now and then we get some together at one time.....Azertyuiop.Moscow and Well Chief,and going back we had the Viking Flagship era with Direct Route,Deep Sensation etc.And all of them imo would not have run in a Ryanair. Lately we have had Sprinter on his own,and now Douvan whose only viable rival is a novice running in his own farcical race cos he has no rival. UDS is probably the only horse in the Ryanair that could possibly give Douvan a race on any known form. We need more quality 2 milers. |
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I've been won over with the JLT
ryanair I'm not so sure tbh, it would go if I had the choice novice hcap would go XC would go mares races would be merged leaves 24 races, 3 days tues to thurs 8 race cards not my thing usually but for a great meeting like cheltenham I can deal with it, failing that 4 days with 6 race cards although that feels a little light |
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ryanair will never have the prestige and the hairs will never stand up on the back of my neck for that race
stayers hurdle is a little bit like that as well though not as much as the ryanair the QMCC is an iconic race and will always sh1t over the ryanair as a race imo |
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something special about a flat out 2m chase on good ground, make a mistake and bang, gone
on the edge just watching especially when got a big clash like douvan and altior promises next year, special race |
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Yet the Ryanair produces a good race nearly every year.Is that not what we want to see?
Does the Queen Mum?? |
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define a "good race"
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2005 Thisthatandtother 9 Ruby Walsh Paul Nicholls
2006 Fondmort 10 Mick Fitzgerald Nicky Henderson 2007 Taranis 6 Ruby Walsh Paul Nicholls 2008 Our Vic 10 Timmy Murphy David Pipe 2009 Imperial Commander 8 Paddy Brennan Nigel Twiston-Davies 2010 Albertas Run 9 Tony McCoy Jonjo O'Neill 2011 Albertas Run 10 Tony McCoy Jonjo O'Neill 2012 Riverside Theatre 8 Barry Geraghty Nicky Henderson 2013 Cue Card 7 Joe Tizzard Colin Tizzard 2014 Dynaste 8 Tom Scudamore David Pipe 2015 Uxizandre 7 Tony McCoy Alan King 2016 Vautour 7 Ruby Walsh Willie Mullins |
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looks like a mixture of borderline grade 1/2 horses to me and horses were genuine grade 1 animals and regrettably ran in this instead of the GC
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For the festival.......Well for me a good race is a competitive race with fair/good quality horses running at their optimum distance.
Can be any distance from 2m to 3m 2. |
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I think the Ryanair can be part of the Cheltenham Festival programme but not grade 1 status; the JLT and Arkle can stay too but the Mares Hurdle - Room 101 please - a time waster.
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do you think it merits being a grade 1 budd?
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Most of those would have been competitive races won by horses at decent prices by not very much.
Now look at the Queen Mum in that time.....compare winning prices,amount of runners and winning distance. |
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glad to hear the arkle can stay
I know you meant AB  |
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Yes I do think it should be Grade 1.
These days there seems to me to be more horses suited to the inbetween distance than the 2m or 3m2 division. |
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Sorry,it appears we have hikacked the CH thread!!.
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buddeliea • March 8, 2017 6:01 PM GMT
Most of those would have been competitive races won by horses at decent prices by not very much tbf that's what I want out of the hcaps, I'm not fussed if the grade 1s don't deliver that in the grade 1s the ideal scenario for me as a fan of the sport is to see the best of best taking each other on I think the ryanair is a softer option for horses who are usually ducking a harder task in the QM or GC though I accept the trip argument is valid take this year...un de sceaux be nice to see him take douvan on, he would be 2nd fav imo, but goes to the ryanair having won the tingle creek and clarence house, traditional stepping stones to running in the QM pity |
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The Mares race is a proper grade 1 championship race. It is here to stay and rightly so.
Would you be in favour of scrapping the 1000 Guineas and Oaks as well? |
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ok |
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Budd, in the majority of cases they are only more suited to in-between distances simply because they are not good enough for the main events and can avoid the best horses
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Absolutely agree re UDS.His form says hes a 2 miler.
I love the horse but i fear Douvan would destroy him with his jumping compared to UDS jumping. We just do not have enough quality 2 mile chasers and have not for some time now. |
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agree that he would be struggling to beat douvan and the jumping would be under pressure...great
 be nice to see douvan being put under pressure as well which UDS has the potential to do (not saying beat him although he's not a mile behind him on ratings) |