Cheltenham Festival
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 1360 comments are related to the topic:
champion hurdle 2017
champion hurdle 2017
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 1,360
|
By:
Exciting indeed! But that doesn't bother me much as they are all still decent prices and normally in a race of this ilk, you'd fancy more than the top three in the betting. And Limini will surely start shorter than PM if supplemented.
Although I'm starting to get the feeling they aren't happy with VVM, and if so, you'd think Limini would stick to the Mares race. |
|
By:
Exactly WC!
|
|
By:
A fair amount has now been traded on MR for this now, do we think this is confirmation he's heading for the Champion or is it just another market over-reaction in the style of the Thistlecrack moves last week?
Cards on the table, I'm sitting on a nice four fold that is going south if he does go for this :( though if he does run in the Champion I'd probably have to back him as surely this is a huge vote of confidence and he has festival form over Yanworth |
|
By:
I personally think he'll end up here; I've thought this for a while, I put it on the Supreme thread at the beginning of January. Had a speculative £5er each way at 33/1 nrnb a while ago - I think he should be round that price now - not sure he should be anywhere near the 10/1 mark though.
I backed High Bridge this morning in the Supreme on the basis I think Moon Racer will come out, causing a big ripple in the Supreme. Re David Pipe and novices, the only other one I can think about was Grands Crus, when there was talk for months about the Gold Cup instead of the RSA - apart from that his only other true Grade 1 runners, I can't think of any where they were novices and there was talk of a Championship race. He hasn't really had too many high profile runners in the last 5 years. List below is his top two prize money earners in GB each year - hardly the who's who of NH racing, I do remember UTPT cost a fortune though. 2012/13: Dynaste £113k, Big Occasion £89k 2013/14: Dynaste £236k, Western Warhorse £103k 2014/15: Dynaste £74k, Broadway Buffalo £64k 2015/16: Dynaste £82k, Un Temps Pour Tout £75k 2016/17: Vieux Lion Rouge £121k, Un Temps Pour Tout £30k |
|
By:
...and more evidence that the race Limini won at the Festival last year was an absolute shocker.
Must be one of the worst Festival conditions races ever. |
|
By:
Melodic Rendevous hardly upheld the Yanworth form @ Newbury despite racing off 135 ish
|
|
By:
I have to say that Bloody Mary and/or Melodic Rendevous running poorly today has absolutely no bearing on the Champion Hurdle at all. NONE
|
|
By:
Harry,
As I say I haven't done a proper large-scale data analysis of Pipe horses versus others but a quick scan of his seasonal winners and runners on the Racing Post site backs up my feelings -- or at least I think it does! A handful of case studies include the likes of Gevrey Chambertin (cost 150k and has not gone on from a very promising start), the ill-fated Batavir (cost 150k but stagnated after a promising start), Dell 'Arca (cost 280k, won a Greatwood as a 4-y-o but went backwards after), Baltimore Rock (cost 160k, won an Imperial Cup but didn't progress and was shipped out to Neil Mulholland). On top of those, there are a good many more that weren't expensive purchases but nevertheless showed lots of promise but just failed to progress or were plagued by injury issues, such as The Liquidator (cost 100k and was seen as a Supreme candidate but disappointed and hasn't been seen for two years), Ronaldo Des Mottes (second in a Betfair Hurdle but couldn't win in 10 runs after), and others like Monetaire, Dynaste, Grands Crus (whose regression was marked), Stars Over The Sea, Kings Palace, Ashkazar, Dom D'Orgeval, Notus De La Tour, Western Warhorse, Red Sherlock, and Salut Flo. Others like Top Gamble and Pleasant Company only became very good after leaving Pipe's yard. I freely admit that you could find similar examples of disappointments for any trainer. But when you look at Pipe's figures and the size of his yard, I stand by my gut feeling that he's been underachieving. To flip the issue on its head, I suppose you could ask for examples of horses that he has done especially well with, in terms of nurturing them to their full potential and/or saddling them to win the best races or remain at the top for a long time -- I honestly find it hard to name many that fit in this category. Even the likes of Dynaste and Tamarinbleu, who won at the highest level, arguably didn't reach their full potential and became disappointing. |
|
By:
completely agree with harry here. David Pipe the most overrated trainer in the country, wouldn't get half the horses he gets if it wasn't for the pipe name.
|
|
By:
and by extension I would give moon racer the swerve
|
|
By:
A right head scratcher of a race, even Columbo would struggle to solve it
|
|
By:
Yanworth is the highest rated, not flash but gets the job done; Brain Power is the most improved handicapper; Buveur D'air will most likely have his ground on the day; Petit Mouchior is the best of the Irish.
I think it's between the above mentioned. |
|
By:
1,2,3,4 in the betting if only it was that simple.
As Deptfrord says a right head scratcher probably 14 or 15 runners with a dozen in with a chance |
|
By:
Thanks for your inspired insight I123 - I don't know what we'd do without you.
Will you leave the forum if none of the 4 win.  |
|
By:
Indeed, geoff m, we have never had a championship race this deep in years and if u add the gold cup we are about to have 2 in the same year!
Yet people are crabbing them as poor renewals  I am well looking forward to Tues week, more excited than a child on Xmas eve  |
|
By:
You may have misunderstood me STS .I dont think its a good renewal . Its deep and competitive in the respect there are plenty in with a chance imo given the run of the race/ground to suit their needs.
Brain Power gone decidedly weak. Maybe its the rain thats about or something more sinister? |
|
By:
Personally don't understand, you can't have both
A short priced so called star Or a competitive 4/1+the field deep race This is why i claim that those who say it isn't strong (no short priced so called star) especially this year when he/she has been omitted due to fitness are no more than mere pocket talkers, it's as simple as that |
|
By:
I too am getting worried about BP, these market moves in relation to him does not look good at all
 |
|
By:
maybe his price movement is correct after all he was way to short at 8/1
|
|
By:
Maybe harry but i cannot have TNO at 16s at all, would have him on a par with MTOY, would have both at 25s
|
|
By:
I'm with you STS. Cannot suss the race for love nor money, but that makes it all the better. I'm from the school of thought that likes a race to be competitive rather than having one short priced fav.
Look at the Festival Plate, the list of winners is full of old dogs, but it's a handicap. Any race that contains second season hurdles/chasers or novices cannot really be called substandard until the winner has had a chance to back it up later on. If one of this years winners goes on to win again next year and the next, it can't be called weak. If the winnner never goes in again then we can say it was a rubbish race, but we'll have to wait until after. |
|
By:
Mark Walsh to ride Yanworth
|
|
By:
Fehily on BD
|
|
By:
Happy enough with Mark Walsh.
Hope he Gets over to the yard this week. |
|
By:
And the soap opera continues, now VVM has been laid in mares and shortened significantly since this morning in champ hdl and Limini has gone the opposite way
|
|
By:
Ok so 2.5 hrs away from supplementary time and what do i observe
Well WPM has said to ATR that VVM more than likely runs in the mares, but hold your horses cos he also says that there is still a week to go and anything can happen Limini has hardened again from a price of 12 last night to 8s and with a few quid wanting to back, i think just from looking at the market we can assume she will be supplemented. Obviously by the above statement VVM will be left in. Yorkhill def' won't be supplemented and anyone taking shorter than 1000 for this have too much doe, i could have used that money to greater effect lol Buvair D'air looking decidedly weak  worrying times for BD fans possibly |
|
By:
Tombstone has not been supplemented for the Champion Hurdle and will go for Coral Cup according to the Press Association.
|
|
By:
No Limini either according to Sporting Life either
|
|
By:
confirmed by Racing Post
|
|
By:
13 left in
Brain Power Buveur D'Air Ch'tibello Cyrus Darius Footpad Moon Racer My Tent Or Yours Petit Mouchoir Sceau Royal The New One Wicklow Brave Yanworth Vroum Vroum Mag |
|
By:
Can see why RR and WPM have come to this conclusion. In a 2m race at Chelts I'd back VVM to beat Limini myself. David Casey said at a preview he felt VVM would beat her easily. And it saves any supplementary fees. And they must fancy Limini to beat AJ again after the last day.
|
|
By:
Limini has not been supplemented - no surprise there as it was a non starter - just sound bite - in the 1st place given inferior form. Where will VVM run? In the same race as Limini ie Mares Hurdle? Again, not a chance unless connections are prepared to abandon their motto of "win-as-many-races-as-possible",...so where, here? Again, very, very unlikely given her ill-health... ...leaving either Aintree and/or Punchestown perhaps.
|
|
By:
From Mullins:
We just decided not to do it,” Mullins said shortly after Limini’s name failed to appear on the list of horses entered for the Champion Hurdle. “I really don’t want to say much more about it now. I imagine she’ll run in the mares’ race.” Asked what his decision about Limini means for Vroum Vroum Mag, Mullins said: “I really don’t know. We don’t have to make that decision yet, anyway. The only decision we’ve made this morning is not to pay the £20,000 to put Limini in the Champion.” Asked for the main reason why he had ruled out the Champion Hurdle for Limini, Mullins replied: “We just decided it wasn’t worth it.” |
|
By:
Wisest decision VVM is the better mare full stop, whether you think VVM can win it or not (I don't), her run at Punch last spring at least shows that she has a justifiable reason to be in the race.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
And what's this then
Mares' Defence The Plan For Vroum Vroum Wed 8th Mar 2017, 09:00 Share Vroum Vroum Mag winning at Cheltenham 2016 ©Healy Racing Photos Vroum Vroum Mag remains on course to defend her crown in the OLBG Mares' Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival next Tuesday. The Rich Ricci-owned eight-year-old mare holds a raft of entries at the Festival, including in the Stan James Champion Hurdle. But trainer Willie Mullins is likely to keep Vroum Vroum Mag against her own sex in a race she won by nearly three lengths a year ago. Mullins told the Irish Times: "She is in the Champion Hurdle, too, and there's still a week to go so things can change. "But the mares' race has been the plan all along for Vroum Vroum Mag and I would imagine that's where she'll go." |
|
By:
I have it 2 runners yanworth and petit mouchoir, cannot have BD any higher than 3rd fav on form
again like the supreme it looks short on proper grade 1 horses |
|
By:
Will Mullins run Limini and VVM in a two-runner race? Maybe Cheltenham could stage a "fake" Champion Hurdle race for these two mares to please, support and educate their connections about horse racing thus connections can be assured of a winner whatever the outcome.
Limini running in this race has always been a red herring,...the chief beneficiaries being the bookies, at the expense of naive and easily led punters. |
|
By:
Limini was never up to the level of winning a CH but some punters fell hook, line and sinker for it based on a few words uttered by Mullins. You just do not know what to believe when it come to Mullins now, even if he has stated that both Limini and VVM will both go for the mares you have to take it with a pinch of salt. If he does race them against each other and they finish 1-2 it will highlight how much of a detriment the Mullins/Ricci axes is for the sport. Aiming for a 1-2 in a soft race such as the mares is ridiculous.
|
|
By:
who knows and whats the point in guessing, multiple scenarios
douvan not firing so UDS to the QM (and possibly Altior in that case) VVM to Ryanair Limini for the mares UDS not firing VVM to Ryanair etc etc ricci has consistently said he doesn't like having more than one runner in a race |