Totally agree IS. Think there's a big chance that we see a 'shock' result this year. Although I have backed who I think are overpriced and have half a chance, it is lurking in the back of my mind that of all the open grade ones this one is the most likely to throw up a big priced winner.

But which one?? Lol

Budd, i totally respect you as you know.

World Hurdle has been weak for years.

In hindsight Big Bucks beat trees, not for me to say but the form screams.

As you know, i go overboard on novices and think they are the 2nd coming, but when they meet a weak division.

Anyways, we move on.

But Cole Harden wins nothing.

I think this mouse morris horse is gonna be a superstar over fences. Mouse is very coy about the horse right now, and given good ground the 10-1 is great value.

Looking at the race ysterday, I thought Alpha Des Obeux and Martello Tower look every inch chasers, and At Fishers Cross to a lesser extent.  That raised a question in my head, that I thought I'd ask because I'm curious.

If you saw one in the Champion Hurdle or World Hurdle where you thought chasing was their ulitmate game, would that put you off backing them for a Champion or World Hurdle?  I suspect not, but the more I think of it, is the Champion and World such a specialist skill (unlike say the Supreme and Neptune) where "chasing types" don't do too well in it?

If you look at the Champion, there hasn't been a winner in the last 15 years who went chasing, and even the placed ones who did (Overturn, Peddlers, Rock on Ruby, Oscar Whisky, Celestial Halo) by and large failed.

The World Hurdle is slightly different because Big Bucks could jump a fence, but aside from More of That and My Way De Solzen, none of the other winners in the last 15 years have gone chasing.  If you look at the placed ones, only Smad Place has ever really done anything over fences (Celestial Halo, Time for Rupert, Punchestowns, Grands Crus) by and large failed over fences.

Therefore, I suppose I am asking do you need a "proper" specialised hurdler to win them, or "chasing types" don't tend to run in them, and go straight from novice hurdling to novice chasing?  Just because those who chasing is their end game either tend
not to win a World Hurdle or a Champion Hurdle.

That makes me think of say ADO, who looks every inch a chaser, it appears to be very rare that his profile would win this race, although I'm probably searching for something that isn't there

That's an interesting question. I'd imagine there isn't a one size fits all answer. Much will depend on the horse, trainer and owners. If you've got a horse which you know is good enough to win a Champion or World Hurdle then you've got the king in their sphere. There's a lot of glory and money to pick up possibly over years. Going chasing may only be worth it in financial or glory terms to you if your horse is then good enough to go on and win a Champion Chase or Gold Cup. The problem being that you start again at the bottom with one hand behind your back because you start novice chasing at least a year behind your contemporaries and have spent an additional year doing something which is quite different and the likelihood is that if your horse has the usual campaign it will be two seasons before you get to a Gold Cup. And that's if everything goes well.

With horses like Alpha and Martello staying hurdling there may be perfectly good reasons but as you point out it isn't necessarily a good thing for a future chasing career. I don't think it says anything about their chances of winning a top hurdle race though.

I'd suggest if you have a horse which seems to be bred for chasing and which gives you every indication that he is a chaser then you probably wouldn't use up at least two years of the horses life doing something like hurdling which is quite different.

BB Dawn run!!

Ok 39 years for Night Nurse , just watched again , fabulous , was there and backed Birds Nest who did his usual !

Can't have Thistlecrack at his current price, fair play if you've got big prices, but said before reckon he'll be a drifter on the day, anything could still end up coming out of the woodwork for this.

Yeah I know dawn run had done it but I was only thinking of any since I started following horse racing (about 15 years or so) can't think of 2 many others off the top of my head! I suppose Sizing Europe could be one as he obviously blew up in the champion hurdle after winning the Irish champion easily then going on to be one of the best chasers for a right good few years much to my delight

Camping ground fans really need Lil Rockerfella to perform tomorrow, anything less than 3rd placed then we can talk some more.

Personally im all over little R to place.

VVM, not a WH winner IMO....whoever was taking 9/2 then, well, plenty plenty too short for me.

Hope she runs, she will be overbet and she only beat handicappers.

Reaction to her today is clear example of Mullins hysteria...utter madness 3/1 I can't believe that.

Still looks like Annie for the mares and vv world as Ricci says it looks unlikely they will get a run into her before Cheltenham so going right for the world would be out! But it could all change... I hope not right enough as have Annie in a right good few doubles in the mares lol

Thumped by camping ground last time out, great run from rockerfeller there off a huge weight! Winner of this years WH imo!! Must surely go close!


On the VVM AP debate, wouldnt surprise me on jot if they swapped them, VVM in mares AP in world hdl after he said AP off what is she now 167 would go very close to winning this years but we'll see. If you missed the sentence from RR i bid you to watch it again

For those who subscribe to the 'Paddy Theory' VVM is 9-4 for the Mares Hurdle with Laddies and 13-2 with PP

Thistlecrack    - Dec 19th Ascot 3m 97yds     Good to soft              6m 4.55s
Vroum Vroum Mag - Jan 23rd Ascot 2m 7f 118yds Soft heavy in places      6m 2.6s

Cleeve Hurdle (30th Jan), Cheltenham, Going (soft at present)

Thistlecrack - 4/5
Camping Ground - 5/2
Kilkooley - 6/1
Ptig Zigg - 7/1
Prince of Scars - 10/1

Favoured ground anticipated for the above except Ptit Zig (I believe), and a big shake-up to follow should Thistlecrack not deliver; if so, it might even mean Vroum Vroum Mag installed as 'fav' - how depressing?

Not sure what Longsdon's up to shockster. He was reported a few days ago leaning towards the Fontwell race he won last year which comes just over two weeks before the World Hurdle. Which strikes me as an extremely strange preparation and which doesn't suggest there's anything amiss with the horse. Suffice to say I don't find this at all impressive. Some of these smaller trainers do surprise me sometimes. He knows he has an extremely good horse on his hands. He is on record as saying only Thistelcrack's form may be superior and yet even as far back as December he was talking about targeting the French Champion hurdle in the summer.

The trainer of Alpha Des Obeaux has said the horse will not travel to England.