Cheltenham Festival
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Vautour
Vautour
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if you tell people theres going to be a sugar shortage then people go out and stock up on sugar and hey presto theres a sugar shortage
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Vautour...winning the CGC...yes, in a horsebox!
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FOYLESWAR
16 Jan 16 09:27 roger , what did seagull think as to vautours run in the king George and regards to vautour staying 3m+ thanks Don't really remember Foyle, but he did say previous Festival form is important and that Vautour has two cracking pieces of that. Also that he's best left handed and in spring, which we all know anyway. |
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This is the GC excerpt Foyles:
"At the start of the season the perceived wisdom was we were heralding a new golden era of staying chasers, but that didn’t come to fruition in the King George when Cue Card beat the new kids on the block. Don Cossack and Vautour might easily reverse those placings at Cheltenham, but Cue Card proved the younger horses weren’t miles better than those with proven form in top races. That adds credence to my theory that Road To Riches is grossly overpriced. Vautour and Don Cossack are the two I fear most. The former didn’t convince everyone in the King George that three and a quarter miles at Cheltenham was going to be his bag, but he is likely to improve again for that run and going left handed is also going to be a big help. Vautour has been incredibly impressive at two previous Cheltenham Festivals and is most definitely a major player. He is likely to start favourite on the day and the Willie Mullins team have consistently said the Gold Cup is his festival target. Don Cossack might have won the King George but for a fall two out and, considering how messily the race went for him, there has to be every chance he can beat Cue Card and Vautour at Cheltenham. The trip will suit, but he remains clumsy at some of his fences and has twice been to Cheltenham without success. The evergreen Cue Card seems better than ever and looks an out and out stayer these days, so has to be given serious consideration too, but Don Poli hasn’t yet beaten a serious Gold Cup contender over fences and will need a real slog to win " |
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thanks for that timtin!
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If Djakadam dont win his prep, could see Vautour going Fav.
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When is Vautours prep?
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Think he will go direct to Gold Cup,only alternative Irish Gold Cup in Feb,possibly on heavy ground? Cant see them travelling again to UK before Gold Cup.
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That's what I thought,so he would be fav after failing to stay well in the KG?
Be a false fav then if that's the case. |
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Yeah I'm sure everyone had Djakadam down as a horse who would finish a close 2nd in a Gold Cup after his Hennessy run ... Not!
But yet people are certain Vautour won't stay even though arguably he would have won a King George with a better jump at the last, jokers! Was his first run over 3 miles and will be in better nick for the Spring as Mullins does with Ricci horses, he's a serious contender! |
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and don cossack would have won if he hadnt fallen and cue card would have won by more if he had jumped the last well,nobody knows anything for certain but on looking at that kempton run he cantered into the straight and emptied from the last and i would guess that if don cossack had stood up and won by a few lenghts the argument would be cc or ryanair
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Totally agree with you mate, it is all ifs and buts, however there's no way people can be certain at this stage that Vautour won't stay when you take all things into consideration!
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Paterson - Vautour is one of the most appreciated horses i have ever known and the forum via masses of posts have been largely full of praise for him - i think jokers is a little harsh for the small minority that probably feel like they are breaking some sacrosanct code for not sharing the popular view.Tthe irony is that some that dont feel he will stay are also massive fans of the horse.
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I'd back Vautour in the CC (against UDS/SS), Ryanair (against DC/RTR/Jkdam) but not the CGC if DC and Djakadam are running; Vautour is a very good horse in training but over 26f at Cheltenham, I'd refrain.
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Those hat think he won't stay are those that believe the form book,in particular the run in the King George,and nowt wrong with that.
Those that think he will stay are looking beyond the form book and looking at reasons why the form book says what it says,nowt wrong with that either. Choice is there. As for the Ryanair....it's now a Grade 1 race in its own right and is there for horses that excel at around two and a half miles. If you look at the Gold Cup,most of the fancied horses Would be fancied big time for the Ryanair.....not just Vautour and RTR,who are mentioned more than the others. Cue Card,Djakadam would certainly be big runners as well Probably be a more exciting race in a lot of ways if they all ran!! Well it would be and you would probably see horses reaching very high ratings Maybe not so intriguing though! I wonder what Vautour fans would rather see, a similar maybe better performance in the Ryanair to the JLT,or a performance seeing him struggle to get home.They choose the Gold Cup,you may see the latter...then again you might see a new Gold Cup superstar!! What a decision to be made. Personally as a fan of horse racing and horses in general I hope connections simply put him in the best race suited to him. |
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Champion Chase it is then
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miltons sophie - apologies, been one of those days. I'm not a Vautour backer nor would I bet against him. But I can guarantee the same people who say he won't stay the Gold Cup trip are the same people who said he wouldn't see out the Kempton trip. You simply can't dismiss him when you take into consideration it was his first run over 3 miles and will be a better horse in March on better ground and at a track he's 2/2. Do I think he will stay? No. I just don't understand why people dismiss him. They 100% would have dismissed Djakadam much like I did. I backed him at 25/1 before the 2014 Hennessy and along with many others, wrote him off completely. I saw it as Champagne Fever all over again!
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Paterson - no worries - totally get your perspective
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Will he won't he, who knows? My take is that the look on Ruby's face after the JLT was like deja vous to after the 2006 Betfair Chase on Kauto, sheer euphoria. I completely accept he's not sure to stay up the hill. However with his record in the Spring at the fez at the current 7s NRNB I'm more than happy to get the wheelbarrow out & leave myself in the hands of Ruby & Mullins. In a nutshell IMHO if he stays he wins & wins large, that's my kind of 7/1 shot. Best of luck whatever your view!!
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Had £300 @6/1 nrnb lads went to go in again changed to 4/1 so opened winner sp acc dep £100 all they would take £34.95 its a hard game
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I find the argument 'first run over 3 miles' one of the biggest red herrings ever.
How in any way, shape or form does that influence a horses ability to stay an extra 2 furlongs uphill?! Sorry, but if a horse gasses over a flat 3m @ Kempton then as long as I have a hole in my backside it will not stay the 3m2f round Pestbury Park. Kauto Star never truly stayed the 3m2f and only his sheer class saw him win 2 x GC's; but he ran rings around all opposition over 3m @ Kempton and stayed every yard of that trip! As a fan of dog racing if you saw a dog fade when upped in trip the first time invariably when tried at that distance again the same result followed as sure as night follows day. Stamina is not acquired by running over a trip further than ideal and doing it again. |
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One of kauris best performances was at Ascot over 2 and a half m in the lead up to his defeat by Denman.
I agree Kauto was at his best over less than the Gold Cup distance.....I think Vautour is as well. Whether running in this Gold Cup affects Vautours future....who knows,but I am pretty sure he will be out of his comfort zone. I would love to see Vautour in the Gold Cup,that's cos I am selfish and want to see them all line up in what could be a classic to remember for a long time. For the horse though,I would like to see him in the Ryanair. That's his optimum distance imo,and the distance you would see him at his best. |
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kauris ? Kauto!!
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Cant understand after what Paddy Mullins said last night Vautour hasnt shortened at least im a lot more confident its Gold Cup. The long and short of it he said the horse could win the Cup and if you could win that or the Ryan theres no choice the Gold Cup is the Gold cup. Im feelin a lot better about my antepost anyway
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agree moat.....he almost dismissed djakadam aswell....only one gold cup.
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