With regards to the time he posted. I believe I have respect for timeform and their analysis of the performance of Peace and Co at Doncaster. They are after all experts in time analysis.

8 seconds faster when carrying 9lbs more equates to 40+ lengths. So he beat the horses in the 0-120 handicap by the distance you'd expect based on the time.

So he's already shown the level of talent required to win a Triumph. What is not known is if he can exceed that level or of that is his peak. Obviously faith is placed in him improving. I'm more than confident peace and Co has proven thus far to be superior to Hargam. How both progress from here is what we'll find out in March.

I wasn't disputing TF ability to judge time. I wasn't opposing your view that no horse would've posted an 8 second faster time than class 4 handicapers. Btw TF don't actually give time figures on jumps racing, they only take overall time to judge the pace so they know what poundage to use per length and then the ratings they assign are based on horses finishing positions.

Yes he has a level required to win a Triumph but so do few other juveniles. Problem is they're not yet stars and most likely not all of them will confirm their current ratings. P&C in particular I doubt he'll post a rating north of that mark, because the circumstances that allowed him to get that high rating in the first place are not likely to happen again with horses getting tired behind him exaggerating the margins and almost all horses in behind running way below their form(not only me saying this look at the TF ratings)

"How both progress from here is what we'll find out in March"
Exactly, lets call them very smart juveniles and keep the stars and monsters aside until they prove it in March.

some good posts timtin...good stuff

strange horse that kalkir...just didn't seem to find, i wonder if he has a breathing problem...surprised he was pushed out to 16-1 though, considering the bigger field is likely to suit him more, although he does look a tad soft so far in a finish...i would bet some headgear will be on in the triumph

hargam looking a solid ew bet tbf although i do worry he might be seen to better affect on a flat track but you are getting a good price in all fairness granted good ground on the day

Not sure what difference it makes but didnt they take most of the fences out at the end of the donny card?

Was obviously a very good performance from p&c at donny but the four that trailed home visually looked horrendous. Didnt seem to be a searching early pace then they put in about 30 seconds of hard work and collapsed in a heap.

Wondering why people think Hargam will be or is better on a flat track, Since day 1 anyone could see he'd be better on ground with very little juice in it so I'd attribute that and the 2 educational runs around Cheltenham towards his impressive run the last day myself rather than the flatter track, Am I in the minority thinking that ?

Hargam will trot up - Peace and Co surprised them at Donny because Hargam worked all over it at home. Donny was a fluke race imo. Hargam just growing into himself and progressing at a rate of knots. On good ground around the New course he will cruise past the others and be another AP winner at the Festival. The price is fantastic! 8-1 to beat a load of mudlarks around the New Course? Unbelievable value! AP will be on the bridle signing autographs up the run in.

And me!!

Good judges!

My recent Triumph Hurdle record:

2007 Katchit Won
2008 Franchoek Lost
2009 Walkon Lost
2010 Olofi Lost
2011 Sam Winner Lost
2012 Balder Succes Lost
2013 Rolling Star Lost
2014 Abbyssial Lost

So there you go, I'm very sorry to all Hargam backers as he's just been given an extra stone to carry.

I thought aftertimes are when you win! Mine lose all the time!

Ps I'm due a win more than you, so sod off Petite Parisienne

Really don't think the Irish form is up to much. IT's Peace and Co or Hargam who win this. I like how the latter has progressed, former doesn't need to improve to win.

Top Notch has a gorgeous hurdling technique

Henderson tricast looks on the cards.

The ground will decide the finishing order...

Mind you with the limited evidence we have re good ground, all 3 could probably be 1st 2nd or 3rd on that as well.

I backed this at 90 early on. Waited about 4 weeks and laid off at 80 just before this cut off stage

Entered at Kempton on Saturday

Peace and Co has eased very slightly since the market re-opened today. Hargam and Top Notch have
hardened a bit. The Adonis could provide pointers again...

No.	Form	Horse	Age	weight	Trainer(RTF%)	Jockey	OR	TS	RPR	Entry for Triumph?
1	1P-115	Bivouac28	4	11-5	Nicky Henderson67		139	117	147	YES
2	14	Jeanpascal104	4	11-5	Venetia Williams36		—	—	131	YES
3	144	Superb Story3	4	11-5	Charlie Mann60		122	104	127	YES
4	11-111	Top Notch7	4	11-5	Nicky Henderson67	Barry Geraghty	144	128	150	YES
5	F1	All Yours16	4	11-2	Paul Nicholls70		—	53	122	no
6	1	Beltor26	4	11-2	Robert Stephens	Tom O'Brien	—	96	134	YES
7	15	Cape Caster26	4	11-2	Evan Williams47		—	77	129	YES
8	342151	Officer Drivel42	4	11-2	Jim Best100		124	79	122	YES
9	13	Russian Bolero133	4	11-2	David Bridgwater		126	97	124	YES
10	13335	Baraka De Thaix78	4	10-12	David Pipe70		—	92	135	YES
11	211	Devilment3	4	10-12	John Ferguson56		138	113	141	YES
12		Primogeniture144F	4	10-12	Dan Skelton50	Harry Skelton	—	—	—	YES
13	B3-42	Qualando33	4	10-12	Paul Nicholls70		131	110	135	no
14	2232	Top Of The Glas11	4	10-12	Brian Ellison78		114	114	123	YES

btw Just to confirm. I still believe P&C will bolt in and end up being a star horse for next few years. I think he's a real gem.