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Cheltenham Festival
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Peace & Co
Peace & Co
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Replies: 766
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Where did you hear that ?
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might not be triumph standard but there is the other race...
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God theres some harsh comments appearing on here.
Horse pulled virtually all the way today, absolutely no surprise he had nothing left at the end. I shall wait till I see him again,in a race that he settles better, before making sweeping statements. |
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Just think that they will have Jacob on Top Notch or Vercingetorix in Triumph and aim Bristol at another race. Jacob already said the horse likes deep ground, he's only a Juvenile has his future ahead of him.
Last thing on planet earth they'll do is run him on good to soft in the Supreme after today. |
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Well that's fair comment re the Supreme,was a hard race for him today for sure mate.
Think he would run in the Triumph if it came up soft though. Top Notch is the one that really interests me,hes my only bet thus far in the Triumph. Have had a tentative bet on Vercingetorix for the Supreme at big odds,but I have a feeling hes waiting for Aintree or Punchestown. |
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Bristol De Mai has probably slipped down the Munir pecking order. Presume though it's still all to play for as regards who joins Peace and Co in the Triumph - I'm guessing Vercingetorix will run at Leopardstown next weekend and Top Notch could run in that race at Kempton?
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Yeah I think that's the races for both, which ever impresses the most will join Peace & Co at Cheltenham. They obviously could aim top Notch at Aintree and then put Peace & Co away after Cheltenhem, while Verceongetorix could go to Fairyhouse then Punchestown.
Spoilt for choice tbh. |
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gutfeeling
No sir. I mean exposed as in we have a fairly clear idea of how good Guard Le Victoire is and don't expect any radical surprises and secondly definitely not the top rated novice in the UK with both L'Ami Serge and Peace And Co comfortably rated more highly than Jollyallan. My other points stand as well in that Jollyallan still can't jump and in my view won't place in the supreme. I wouldn't slice it any other way than it was a very disappointing run. The ground should have suited Bristol and he is unlikely to have it as soft in March. If he were mine I'd be looking after the horse because that could pay dividends when he goes chasing. |
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Ground may have suited, but you simply cannot ignore the Fact he pulled throughout the race...well I cant anyway.
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That's a fair point. He did pull but it wasn't in any way extreme I'd say and given his breeding it should have made slightly less difference than to a horse like Peace And Co who pulled hard early at Cheltenham with plenty of people having questioned that ones ability to stay.
For me there is a glimmer of a picture beginning to emerge that perhaps the view which many of us held of this year being especially strong for juveniles may not be true. It's far from a full picture but the four year old in Ireland which beat Kalkir on debut was easily left behind when the taps were turned on in the Irish Champion and now Bristol being comfortably dispatched. You can only go on what evidence you have and it's far from a conclusive picture but there's certainly food for thought especially after today in my view. |
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But he pulled enough to affect him getting home imo, was pretty much all the way.
Just dont think the horse deserves to be judged on today. |
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I would agree you can't judge a horse on one run like that, particularly a young one but you'd still be disappointed with how he finished.
On a line through Karezak, Bristol De Mai & Peace and Co are roughly rated the same. Maybe Karezak improved a small bit between Cheptsow & Cheltenham. He's a good yardstick himself and even though he's getting beat, he's probably in with a fair shout himself. There's an interesting race tomorrow at Musselburgh between the forgotten horse Hargam and the horse Peace and Co hammered at Doncaster, Starchitect. Hargam's debut run at Cheltenham looked impressive at the time but Golden Doyen and Baraka De Thaix have disappointed since and again using Karezak to equate the form, Hargam looks a bit behind Bristol De Mai and Peace and Co. I actually thought Fiscal Focus ran a very good race in the Leopardstown until he got a bump off of Hurricane Fly. Not sure if it affected him or if he was genuinely going backwards anyway. It was disappointing how he failed to quicken up. |
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No disrespect to you budd but if you've backed him I think you'd have to be less confident after today. MTOY is one who pulls like a train and they say he'll never fulfill his true potential as a result but he still consistently posts a high level of form. My own view is that I'd incline to the suggestion that Bristol won the juvenile at Chepstow partly because his opponents were inconvenienced by the ground and he was very much convenienced by the combinatio of it and the strong pace and was the best stayer in the race. Today I'm less sure that his limitations of ability have been exposed per se and more that he may lack tactical speed.
Consequently my view is that on the evidence we've seen he may get away with Cheltenham if the ground is deep but that he may struggle on good ground which is the view I inclined towards before today's race and which was suggested by Jacob following that win at Chepstow. Of course I respect Twisters right to disagree but I feel he often forms a view based on what he would like rather than what the evidence suggests. |
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I thought Karezak was one of the few to benefit by the fact that his previous experience allowed him to settle at Cheltenham whilst Peace And Co and the third didn't. How much allowance you make for that and for the fact that he may well benefit from a stamina test in the Triumph is difficult to say.
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I'd say one thing is highly likely in that I think there are still plenty of cards to be played yet.
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I'm sorry but you can't rate Peace and Co through Karazek, the race was a farce, no pace and Geraghty was out to train the horse.
If you want to see how good Peace and Co is watch Starchitecht tomorrow vs Hargam. When Peace and Co was allowed to show his true ability and stamina he had that horse 19l behind him. I don't see Hargam beating him more than a few lengths tomorrow. That's IF Starchitecht is trying, he might go out for a canter tomorrow to protect his mark for the Fred Winter. |
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CVB I agree with you on Peace & Co. My initial impression on his Doncaster run was "Jeez what have we here?". They obviously tried to teach him how to settle at Cheltenham. Vercingetorix is the interesting one for me. Runs at the Irish Hennessy meeting in a week or so.
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so basically cv
if starchitecht runs well within a few lengths or beats hargam, peace and co is a monster if starchitecht doesnt run well he's just being prepped for FW, and peace and co is still a monster  |
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Starchitecht really was inconvenienced by the ground at doncaster and tbh isn't straight forward anyway and he wasn't on the flat either...better ground tomorrow should see him in a better light than when peace and co beat him...that race peace and co won first time is looking a poor race bar himself who won easy, personally just not sure the actual value of the race...the time didn't lye that day but that isn't to say i was taken by his second run either...very keen to get him now tbh
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funny that wicketd no lose either way
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@Wicketd lol either a monster or a `monster`ish
Thing is before calling him a monster we need far more evidence than a dodgy formline of which finishing margins could be way flattering for P&C. Right now he is a nice prospect nothing more. Let the horse do the talking on the track before hyping him up more than necessary. I can't wait to see him at Chelt and see what he is really capable of on the big day. |
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i dont think he's a monster at all, it was a joke re; cv basically saying tomorrow cannot dent peace and cos reputation at all
im against him at the moment |
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We can easily tell if Starchitect is being prepped for the FW from watching the race.
Peace and Co is a monster, we don't need any more info in that regard. He post a bonkers performance on his debut at Donny. Showed depts of his talent and stamina. Just a matter of getting him there fit and well and no bad luck in running. Sprinter Sacre, UDS, Peace and Co that's the level of brilliance I'm talking about. |
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harry callaghan
that race peace and co won first time is looking a poor race bar himself who won easy So the 3rd comes out and runs a 1.5l 2nd nto and the 5th comes out and wins. While Starchitect runs tomorrow and you are saying it's a poor race? What if Starchitect runs 3 or 4l 2nd tomorrow? Sorry but calling it a poor race is lazy, you didn't even follow the beaten horses subsequent runs. You just said it was poor because of the distances. |
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The form of the 4 year olds took a knock today. I've got Karezak as a reliable marker who ties in Bristol de Mai and Peace and Co. On collateral form maybe P&C isn't the world beater he looked at Donny. I'm not suggesting collateral form should be used to denigrate P&C. What I am suggesting is that at his current price I'd want it all to be stacking up in his favour. I reckon you'll get at least 4s on the morning of the race.
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I am being very cautious on the form today, the ground was too bad to be true and as regards to the triumph hurdle, i still do not think we have seen the winner out yet. Or if we have, it hasn't ran since October - December time!
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I'm done with this thread for now. People putting face value on the joke race run lto with Karazek and Peace and Co. I'll just get annoyed repeating myself.
..and now we'll get 4's on Peace and Co on day of the race... |
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peace and co being mentioned in same breath as sacre, ridiculous!
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yes it was slowly run cv but like in many slowly run races class comes to the fore. peace and co showed a lot of speed, karazak is a galloping type who needs a strong pace.
point is, they came comfortably clear of the rest and the form, though not to be taken exactly literally, is still a good marker |
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I'm thinking along the lines of Apsatou, Chartbreaker or Devilment. Anyone of them really could be anything! Ok, guessing here but we always get 3 or 4 late ones out for this race and ok i may have guessed already at 3 and they been pigs
 but come on, got to speculate to accumulate right  |
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I forgot about one, my one and only bet with the bookies in the triumph being 33/1 on top notch.
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Sorry but calling it a poor race is lazy, you didn't even follow the beaten horses subsequent runs. You just said it was poor because of the distances.
i'm not lazy cv byrne i just don't believe it was a great race myself and never mentioned distances anyway...yes he pizzed up in a good time but i'd say he beat some very moderate horses myself and stand by it...you can use the collateral form for horses running at gaff tracks and other horses who weren't off that day all you wish |
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It's a fair point that the form of the Peace and Co / Karezak race is disputable because of the pace.
However I don't think ratings take into account race pace and other such factors. I think the bare facts of the form tie Peace and Co and Bristol De Mai in closely together. I think you can acknowledge this and still believe Peace and Co will be the superior horse in time. You have to question collateral form all the time anyway as that is where the edge is. It would be pretty boring if you fancied the top rated all the time. |
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A few direct quotes about Peace & Co from CVByrne:
“The horse is 5/2 after two career runs, you don't need much to be put off backing it. Too many unknowns and random variables to touch such a price antepost on a Juvenile in my opinion.” “His current price offers no value though.” “So to shorten him for the Triumph is ridiculous. Totally Unbackable price” “Backing any novice for any race at Cheltenham at 2/1 is madness.” Then he throws his toys out the pram when I have the temerity to suggest it should be 4/1. Where’s the logic in that? He seems to be trying to set himself up as an authority on horse racing but I think he’s a pompous hot head. |
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Starchitect was firmly put in his place by Henderson's Triumph Hurdle favourite Peace And Co at Doncaster and trainer Donald McCain is hoping lightning does not strike twice.
"The Henderson horse stands out again, but I have to admit I was mightily impressed with the horse that beat us at Doncaster," said the Cheshire handler. "I think on better ground he might have run better again at Doncaster, so he should like the ground on Sunday. |
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I don't rate any of the form and think the principles are woefully short in the betting. Still, as already said, don't think winner has been sited as yet and think the market has it completely wrong.
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And ive just realised im repeating myself as said as much above
apologies lol |
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Surely the market can only go on what has been seen?
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Well of course it does, but i would have the market at 10s the field personally. It is my opinion that the market should be 10s the field even now. I said right after PC's debut when he was catapulted to short priced fav that it was far too early and way too short and a huge over reaction and i stand by that opinion. He was impressive yes but nothing has come out for me to say wow about. And with any number of young novices still to be seen, i hold judgement big time.
Chartbreaker, Apsatou are the two that intrigue me. I have had silly £2's on at huge prices on here and 3 have been out and since disappointed but i still have them two to hope for. I was disappointed Arabian Rev got himself beat lto with the penalty. |
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The only other one i felt was worth a punt with a bookie was top notch at 33/1 and even thats only a fiver each way
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