I can't make my mind up about Un De Sceaux...he looks like a total monster in his performances, but if they truly believe he's top class then what is he doing arsing around at Gowran and Autieul? It just feels to me like they have a hunch that he'll get found out in top races. Purely my own feeling, not based on anything else.

I think Vautour could be a bit like Faugheen for last year's Neptune, hammered all year and wins easily. I just can't see anything at this point to get near him. Budd, I know you like to search for a bit of value and that, but Vautour absolutely spanked Sgt Reckless and Josses Hill red-raw in the Supreme, and given he's almost certain to make a better chaser, I couldn't have those two on my mind. But outside them, what have we got at this point to face Vautour? All I have is Gilgamboa, who made a shattering error at the 2nd last in the Supreme which ended his chance, so may well have given Vautour a race.

You can say I'm paying too much attention to hurdles form, but they're the same beasts at the end of the day. Fences can improve a horse of course, but in this case it looks like Vautour is actually the one to benefit most from the transition.

Patterson, I think the reaction was also a lot to do with the way he went about the race as much as the fall. This may sound stupid but it's almost the same as when Frankel won the Guineas - he went right out for the derby not due to ability but due to the fact they knew it wasn't the right race for him. I've not been a higher believer of UDS really until today but I just don't think they'll take him to Chelt, and I feel that's what the bookies may be thinking as well.

GI, I think we can give the game up if Ptit Zig wins an Arkle

The Tullow Tank would be an obvious danger but surely more likely to be over further at the Festival. Three Kingdoms perhaps, but he's just another one who got a good long distant look at Vautour's hole in the Supreme.

I'm torn between my brain saying that the Arkle can't possibly be cut and dried at this early stage, and the rest of me saying Vautour is a day 1 cert

Joist, as re what they think of UDS: look at it this way.......would we know more about him if Ricci owned him? My feeling is we would. They have a horse that wins by a distance practically everyone time he runs,yet never run him in a race to test him further,just makes no sense,unless it suits the stable and their other horses,that's the only explanation I can think of as to why a horse is never put in a race against testing opposition. All my years of watching horse racing I have never seen this before,and that's a lot of years mate!!!

In fairness GI, I've just looked back at his form and I may have been a bit harsh! A good quality beast for sure. In the Twist Magic colours, if he's going as strongly in the Arkle as Twist Magic was, you could be in clover.

too many impondarables in this race ,have backed vautour but wont be topping up as depending on other outcomes he could run in any of 3 races ..........gonna concentrate on other races till the picture is more clearer !

Kauto Star won his chase debut, it was his second chase he fell in.

However, Moscow Flyer and Big Zeb both fell in their beginners chases, they weren't too bad either!

Yep,totally agree Duffy,he does seem rather one dimensional,and at the speed he goes he's more liable to not find a leg should he hit one. Maybe the answer is back hurdling if that's the case. On the positive side he did show he could jump a fence and a clear round would imo see him very hard to peg back at 2m whatever the opposition having proved he stays further than 2m. Of course he may prove not good enough in top company,but we won't know that till he's entered in a race that would tell us.

Entered Boxing Day 2m 1f, but also Topaz over 3 miles ffs! Will be shocked if going 3 miles already, maybe next season will step him up in trip?

Above post was relating to Vautour entered for 3 miler lol!

Harry,
Could not agree more.
If during the season both have earned the right to contest the race then both should be in it.
Should really be as simple as that.......but we know it wont be.

Another move by PP to 'get' Vautour in the Arkle market. Have nudged him out to joint top price 7/2 from 3's.... still noticeably shorter than anyone else for the JLT at 9/4

Agree with Harrys post above.

Hopefully all set for Arkle on 25 th Jan, 8/1 biggest PP and Sid for Arkle, but has contracted in last week in win any race 6s to 7/2. lets hope Vautour and UDS meet in one Arkle or another, have my doubts.

Someone who talks sense graeme83,no way they would risk a slog 1st time over 2 and a half,the new course takes some getting !

Think they would be mad to run in Queen Mother, no matter who shows Arkle horse end of hopefully.

Always hard to know for sure what's going on with this yard,but it does seem pretty obvious thatUDS is Being aimed at the Arkle. Now it's just a case of whether Vautour joins him or runs in the JLT,hope it's the Arkle. Can't se them going for the QM,goes against what they have always said about novices and senior races.

It's looking more likely Vautour goes for the JLT now, especially if he runs on Sunday in the 2m3f race won by Djakadam last year.

A lot can happen still,the way the weather is Sunday might be on,if Vautour does run on Sunday I can understand jlt,just thought it would be strange going irish arkle then jlt,still gutted though,allez columbieres deed,vautour jlt bound,next faugheen will miss champion hurdle for Aintree lol, take my shoelaces off me someone please !

Yep its starting to unravel a tad.
Could be :

UDS....Arkle
Vautor.....JLT
Valseur Lido......RSA
Don Poli......4 Miler

But then again.....