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Replies: 484
By:
strontium
When: 29 Oct 12 17:00
You could be right it's his best trip given he got beaten by Bobs Worth over 2 1/2 m (far too short for that one). I genuinely don't know what CC's best trip actually is.
By:
buddeliea
When: 29 Oct 12 17:56
Dont be afraid for me Duffy,i have no problem if SS proves to be the best 2 miler weve seen for a while-possibly ever-,i just want to see him beat the best around first.
If he destroys the senior 2 milers as he did last years novices then fair enough.
By:
buddeliea
When: 29 Oct 12 17:59
Stront,
i feel his connections dont know either,so no surprises if we debate it on here.
Be fascinating to see how he does in the coming months.
im predicting he ends up in the Ryanair,but no betting on it!!
By:
duffy
When: 30 Oct 12 08:35
agree there budd, he'll not get home over 3 miles and they'll be too scared of SS, so that leaves the ryannair,, shame, i'd love to see him in the top 2 mile races from the front using all that exuberance, if he kept playing second fiddle to SS, i wouldn't be scared of anything else around.
By:
buddeliea
When: 30 Oct 12 08:40
well if his connections agree with you then thats what he should do imo,should never be afraid of one horse,even if it does look bl00dy good!!
Different season can bring different outcomes,especially with novices going into senior company,and maybe different tactics could see him more successful,just never know in this game.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 31 Oct 12 17:15
having put this one up on the ante post forum for the k.g  i may be pocket talking but cue cards 2nd to bobs worth btn a short head was a cracking effort,  considering he was giving the winner £7,looking all over the winner 2 out untill chinned on the line ,and the beating of for non stop is looking a lot better than it did at the time .
a lot saying this horse is tripless but his best races imo have been over further than 2miles and 3 miles could see further improvement espcially on a flat track like kempton ! has cue card ever run right handed ? the king george could be made for him and a big price too!
By:
duffy
When: 31 Oct 12 17:26
I just reckon that at some point they will come to the conclusion that he's a point and shoot horse, he still does a little too much in his races for me, and i'd worry that once his rhythm is broken in a race by way of a mistake, then it could all go wrong, with that, trying to keep going effectively over 3 could be asking a lot, love to see it mind you as it would be great to see tizzard (colin that is) leading him back at kempton, the post race interview would be a cracker tooGrin
By:
strontium
When: 31 Oct 12 17:27
He's entered at Kempton over an extended 2 1/2 on Monday.
By:
duffy
When: 31 Oct 12 17:35
and haldon gold cup, you'd think kempton would be most likely though if they're getting him away from 2 miles this year, getting him used to kempton too
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 31 Oct 12 18:08
cue card was giving for non stop £7 when beating him 4 lengths at newbury ,the form looks hot !
By:
rhinestone
When: 01 Nov 12 17:18
think he'll end up Ryanair myself
By:
tinkler
When: 01 Nov 12 22:19
Cue Card appeared to run out of stamina when beaten over 2 1/2m by Bobs worth despite no great early gallop ,if the race
was over 2m he gave the impression he would have won easily. When beating For non stop over 2m 2 1/2f he showed a lot of
speed to go clear again. For me Cue Card has bags of speed and is every bit a 2m chaser.If the exceptional Sprinter Sacre wasn't about he'd
have been a wide margin Arkle winner clocking a similar time to the Queen mother winner , and connections would most likely
campaign him exclusively over 2m.
By:
strontium
When: 01 Nov 12 22:47
Of course he'd beat Bobs Worth for speed over 2 m! BW is a proper slogging staying chaser.
By:
strontium
When: 01 Nov 12 22:50
Incidentally Cue Card won the champion bumper when he was only 4yo - wouldn't we expect him to want (considerably) further as a chaser?
By:
wellchief
When: 01 Nov 12 23:01
If he stays well and places in the King George I think he'd have a huge chance in the Ryanair (not that I don't think that now)

The Ryanair has always been won by stayers who were 2m4 - 3m horses, rather than 2m - 2m4 horses.  Imperial Commander, Albertas Run, Riverside Theatre, Taranis etc were all very effective or superb over 3m.

The 2 milers often look flashier going into the Ryanair, but its a stayers that you want imo
By:
festivalfanatic
When: 01 Nov 12 23:18
I've had a little bit on for the Ryanair. Just don't see him as a Gold Cup horse.

Time will tell whether his effort in the Arkle warrants merit. There is no bigger fan of the monster than me and I believe time will show that to get within 7 lengths was actually a very good effort.
By:
duffy
When: 03 Nov 12 00:28
BW is a proper slogging staying chaser. so BW out pointing cue card over 2 and a half doesn't do anything for cue cards chances of being a 3 miler really does it, because if cue card would have beat him over two because bw is a proper 3 mile slogger, how does cue card not beat him over 2.4 then, unless it was stamina coming into play whilst the other was ebbing away....or you reckon that it wasn't far enough for CC which doesn't make sense.

I think CC is a highly talented 2 miler that should be raced in a one dimensional front running style where you'd hope he could get display a slick jumping rhythm in the edredon bleu mode and win races that way, SS is around but that's just too bad, they will try and make him what he's not and lose out in the process, imo that is.
By:
strontium
When: 03 Nov 12 00:55
I don't think I've ever said CC is a 3 mile chaser in making have I? The fact that BW beat him over an inadequate trip on an unfavourable course more or less shows that. what I have said is I don't know what CC's best trip is - and I'm not prepared to say it's 2 m when he's only run at that distance once.
By:
strontium
When: 03 Nov 12 00:57
(I may have said that I think he'll end up running in 3 m chases - but that's my opinion of what I think his connections will do, not what would suit the horse the best).
By:
duffy
When: 03 Nov 12 02:17
hopefully they won't persist too long if it becomes obvious he is not suited to it.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 03 Nov 12 09:55
how do any of us know what his best trip is, connections have obviously disscussed this and may have seeen something  that is telling them that he will get further than 24 furlongs  ! they probably think the 2mile division is too hot and know he gets 2.4 why not give it a pop at 3miles, nothing to lose,  if he, as tizz says  is more relaxed then he has every chance of getting 3 miles at kempton imo,  his comfy  4 lenghts  beating of for non stop giving 7pound looks very hot form now fns rated 162 taken litarally i would put cue card  around 8- 10 pound better than fns on last seasons form ,for non stop may have improved but so can cue card  so do the maths he hasnt got a great deal to find on last seasons form and with improvement likely this season who knows how far he can go .i i think he will get 3 miles at kempton and have backed him in the king george .
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 03 Nov 12 10:14
by the way i dont think there are many horses out there who will be able to give 7 pounds to bobsworth and run him so close  over 2.4 or 3 miles +! so i see that run  by cue card as a positive not a negative .as i say if he is more relaxed this season then 3 miles quite possible .
By:
wellchief
When: 03 Nov 12 10:28
Although I think Bobs Worth biggest strength is his stamina, I think it's a bit harsh for people to categorise him as a plodder.  He beat Rock on Ruby fairly comfortably over 2m4, and Sire de Grugy over 2m.  He was antepost fav for the Neptune in his novice hurdle days, and won of won that imo, if they would have went for it.

On a different note, I think some people judge Cue Card harshly because a lot of them probably got their fingers burnt in the Supreme and haven't forgotten it.  Because he didn't turn out to be the superstar hurdler that some expected him to be, I think some people are quick to knock him.  Not accusing anyone on here, but I think it happens.
By:
buddeliea
When: 03 Nov 12 10:48
Foyles,
I agree that we dont know for sure what his best trip is,and as i said before i dont think his connections do either.
What we do know is that hes fairly useful at 2m and also at 2m and half(imo his trip).What we dont know is whether he will get 3m against the best stayers around,and backing him for the KG may be too much of a risk for some to take.
As you have backed him for the KG,then obviously you have taken into consideration all that,and think his price is worth the risk,fair enough.
Yes hes open to improvement,but if he dont stay,he dont stay,and improvement wont alter that.
Intriguing horse,and will be interesting finding out where his future lies.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 03 Nov 12 11:14
yeah bud he may prove to be best over shorter than 3 miles but if you dont buy a ticket you wont win the raffle ! and i am in free bet territory with this one so nothing lost if he does not stay !
By:
duffy
When: 03 Nov 12 13:12
If SS wasn't around as of this minute i would make him fav. for the queen mum i'd fancy him in front of say FR, anyway he'd be mighty competitive in the race, so if he ends up staying 3 round kemnpton,(which as lots of former jocks always remind us about,isn't a "gimme", you really have to stay 3 well there because they're always pretty much at it the whole way and it will find you out) then he really would be some horse.

I think it's because deep down (well not even deep down really)there is a suggestion they are trying to avoid one horse and turn him into something he "may" not be.....i didn't think you were supposed to be afraid of one horse, even him, but as everyone says, he may get it standing on his head and run them ragged round there.
By:
wellchief
When: 03 Nov 12 15:22
At 16 and 17 furlongs, Cue Card has won one bumper and one novice hurdle.  At 16 furlongs, Sizing Europe has won an Irish Champion Hurdle, an Arkle and a Champion Chase.  I could never have Cue Card over Sizing at 2m, even with the age difference.
By:
buddeliea
When: 04 Nov 12 10:37
nor me chief
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 04 Nov 12 11:32
agree well chief sizing europe has achevied more than cue card but he didnt achieve it at 6  which is what cue card is, not saying cue card will acheive as much ! but he has time on his side .
By:
strontium
When: 05 Nov 12 11:24
Declared tomorrow at Exeter in the Haldon Gold Cup.
By:
buddeliea
When: 05 Nov 12 12:29
yeh,up aginst menorah,be interesting to see how his jumping is this season,needs to be better than last.

not the best renewal,but the front 3 should make it competitive-hopefully!!
By:
strontium
When: 05 Nov 12 12:34
Yes. I'm a big Edgardo Sol fan. He was so progressive over fences last season I'm hopeful he might develop in to a very good chaser. However, at the weights I can't see past Cue Card.
By:
wellchief
When: 06 Nov 12 17:02
Based on For Non Stop's price of 10/1 for the Ryanair, 7/1 for Cue Card seems about right, but I'd still have a preference for Finians at the prices.

Including Grands Crus and Champion Court, this years middle distance second season novices look like a good bunch.

Three very impressive performances over 2m4 this season, with Cue Card, FNS and Sizing Europe.
By:
GoldCupWinner
When: 06 Nov 12 17:16
I don't think any of his performances scream out that he is a stayer. I think it was you who pointed out that it is usually the stayer types who win this race rather than the speedsters. I think he's a top class 2m-2m4f horse but not quite the best.
By:
GoldCupWinner
When: 06 Nov 12 17:16
Talking about Cue Card.
By:
wellchief
When: 06 Nov 12 17:27
I suppose out of the realistic ones for this race, out of those in the top of the market, Grands Crus is the only one that looks like a staying middle distancer, although that could change a lot after the King George if Finians or Cue Card run well into a place or even win.

A lot of those in the top of the market have been campaigned largely around 2m4 sub, rather than further.

I think a lot will change in the betting for this race as running plans of the fancied runners becomes more apparent, ie Finians, Grands Crus, Flemnstar, Riverside etc.
By:
GoldCupWinner
When: 06 Nov 12 17:39
Sometimes it's difficult to classify them too. Sizing Europe for example. No argument he has been at his very best over 2m and although he is not as good over 3m he has still been placed in group races. Will he stay or not given that we are looking for stayers?
By:
Desmond Orchard
When: 06 Nov 12 19:14
As stated on other threads, I'm a big fan. Good performance today, the 2nd and 4th appear to have run their races (although EDS maybe needed the run) and he has pulverised them. It's hard to see him not going up at least 10lb for that and could possibly be as high as 170, which would put him on the premises in most of the top races.
Champion Bumper winners usually turn out to be stayers, so I expect that 3m around Kempton might be gettable - but where then? The Ryanair looks like it could potentially be hotter than the CGC this year. It's shaping up to be quite a season.
By:
GoldCupWinner
When: 06 Nov 12 19:25
Amte post betting seems impossible at this stage, especially in the Ryanir. Any of them could end up at 2m or in the Gold cup.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 06 Nov 12 19:26
cue card beat for non stop 4lengths at newbury giving him 7pound last season  ,for non stop rated 162 now ,what rating cue card now ?
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