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Ye he will win this hard held
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The day of reckoning nears.
If he does everything right and doesn't go very close, I'd have to be very disappointed. No problems with the going and no single fearsome opponent given the withdrawals. If he's as good as some of us have long thought, he has to go close and hopefully win. If Champagne Fever runs a stormer in the QM, confidence would rise further but there are few other possible form boosts between now and then. Go on my son! |
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I didn't see the race yet, so I can't comment on the performance.
but on the result I was right |
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Didn't jump great, especially as the pace increased.
Probably could have done with softer ground as well. He's a horse that will mop of joke races in Ireland where he has 1 or 2 opponents but he's nowhere near top class sadly. |
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Disagree.
All went well until he pecked 6 out and lost his position at a crucial time. Then forced to go out wide and sit behind others as they came down the hill. He was rallying to good effect when Cooper tried to go between horses on the run to two out and was squeezed out and did well not to come down. (The racecourse camera showed this far better than the Channel 4 ones). Having been alongside the eventual fourth, fifth and sixth, he was shunted back to three or four lengths behind them with momentum gone. The fact that he rallied, jumped the last well and ran on to good effect was impressive. I'd be the first to admit he wouldn't have caught the leader, but he'd have been second with a clear run at the penultimate fence. A fine effort and one of those days when it all went right for the winner but not for the Don. Other days will come and I suspect Cooper will rue his daring approaching two out, although had he tried to come wide he would have forfeited ground. The mistake six out really did change his race. |
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Incidentally, the race being a course record, six seconds below standard and ten seconds quicker than the handicap shows just how quick they went and how crucial any errors were.
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Against that field, I doubt he'll have a better chance to win at the festival imo.
I'd personally back the three beaten JLT runners if they faced him in the Ryanair next year, and will Don Poli and RTR is the Gold Cup, I can't see him running in that. |
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Mclernon banned for cutting Don up two out. Watch it again and I think you will see how badly he was checked.
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Count a new member to this club :-) Brilliant today!
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Well done. Haven't seen the reply but apparently he won it very well
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As author of this thread, perhaps time to celebrate a wonderful victory and one which vindicated all the hopes expressed over the past three years. He's had plenty of knockers on here but I think comments such as "snaffle horse" and the inexplicable "can't win left-handed" are now consigned to dust, as is the comment after Cheltenham "he's nowhere near top class" (Mr Eboue)
I'm delighted that both Eddie O'Leary and Gordon Elliott have declared next year's Gold Cup to be the target. The former said "Ws,e've now got Don Poli and Don Cossack for the race" without even mentioning Road to Riches. I'm sure there will be certain "non-stayer" labels attached to him but I've never doubted he has stamina in abundance myself. In terms of rating his victory the RP is contradictory. Cue Card, who Colin Tizzard was delighted with, is described as running "much better" than in his three other races this season and is then rated 9 pounds lower than each of his other runs at 156! Presumably, this was done so that Don Cossack's rating did not disappear into the stratosphere but, even taking this at face value, the Don should surely have been rated 30 pounds above Cue Card, rather than at 179, given the 26 length winning distance and the fact that he was eased while the placed horses fought out a finish? If one does accept the RP ratings, then Don Cossack still produced the best display by any chaser this season, one pound better than Coneygree. However, there must be a good case for rating the performance even higher, given that every other horse in the race is deemed to have run well below their rating, which seems to me unlikely. These wide margin Grade One wins are hard to assess. When Master Minded and Sprinter Sacre achieved their monster ratings, their runners-up were deemed to have run to their ratings while, here, that has not been assumed to be the case. Semantics apart, I hope that Don Cossack swerves Punchestown, where he's entered in the Gold Cup and, bizarrely, the two mile chase. He's had six races this season and was run once too much last year. The three festivals take a lot of doing and let's hope they keep him for next season. I took some 80/1 and 75/1 after Cheltenham for next year's Gold Cup and was amazed to see him still at 30/1 plus after Aintree. While a stellar year ahead looks likely, he surely has as much chance as anything else at this point. Finally, how good it was to see AP ride this horse. If ever a combination gelled instantly, this was it. While Bryan Cooper is a fine pilot, this was something else. Fantastic if he turns out to be AP's final Grade 1 winner. |
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Nice write up Cyclops.
I agree Don Cossack was very unlucky at Cheltenham and maybe unlucky not to be undefeated this season. I am sceptical of wide margin victories and also getting carried away with winners from Aintree. However Don Cossack himself had a hard race at Chelt and faced a couple of rivals here who had missed the festival. Cue Card is not the horse of old but still capable of running to a reasonable rating. Johns Spirit looks to have run close to his best with Champagne Fever running to around 150. I think it reasonable to rate Don at 183. He again looked like he had to be kept up to his work before his stamina kicked in. In the Ryanair he was finishing better than anything. He may well be capable of being a Gold Cup horse. Interesting you say they didn't mention Road To Riches. I backed RTR this season as I thought he was value and had some decent form. I never had him down as a horse capable of running to the mid to high 170's which stops me getting too excited with regards to this years Gold Cup. I'll be very surprised if one of the new kids does not win it next year. |
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They should 100% definitely aim him at the King George - tailor made for him.
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Well done Cyclops, but sorry, I cannot have it being the performance of the season.
Aintree form is still Aintree form. Coneygree as a novice to win the Gold Cup has to be the best performance, but that's another debate. Don't blame them for trying over 3m again, but its no coincidence to me that he has been a completely different horse this year and he has been campaigned over 2.5 all year, which like Albertas (who also got 3m) his best distance will be over the Ryanair trip going a good clip on good ground. If he does go Gold Cup, then hopefully their Ryanair horse will be Clarcam, who is still very young and open to bags of improvement. |
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Don't want that to sound arsey by the way Cyclops. I think its great the way you've spotted him as a bumper horse and to then demolish a very good G1 field some three years later, never losing the faith. Much respect!
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Kind words, wellchief, and thank you.
I certainly wouldn't dispute Coneygree's being the performance of the season - there's only one Gold Cup. We can agree to differ over the Don's best distance and that will be part of next season's intrigue (unless answered before at Punchestown). All I do know is that his trainer was very happy to divert to this year's Gold Cup had anything happened to R to R and has always said he believes Don Coassack's a stayer. |
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Don could still pack a Punch
Thu, 16 April 2015 Gordon Elliott is weighing up whether to let runaway Aintree winner Don Cossack have an outing at the Punchestown Festival. The Gigginstown House Stud-owned eight-year-old accounted for some very smart rivals by upwards of 26 lengths in the Melling Chase, and Elliott has been delighted with his condition since the race. The only time he has been beaten this season was when he was slightly unlucky in the Ryanair Chase at Cheltenham. "He is bouncing after Aintree," said the County Meath handler. "I don't know whether to run at Punchestown as he's been so good and has won four from five this season. "Every time you look back at the Ryanair it makes you realise how unlucky he was, but he is an exciting horse for next year." |
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Make that five from six Gordon!
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The Don proved me wrong again today, not for the first time.
I doubted him over 3m, but got better and better as the race went on. To win like he did at Aintree and back that up today was some performance. Despite his interference, I don't think be would have beaten Uxizandre, so I suppose the only question marks over him now is Cheltenham, but he's looking a better horse with every race, and wouldn't let his festival record stop me backing him. The front three all look real good ones for next year. I do feel sorry for Road to Riches, as the ground always tends to go against him at the last minute. 20/1 is a big price for him next year imo. Haven't looked forward to a Gold Cup so much since the Kauto, Denman and Imperial Commander days. I filled in the entry form to the fan club after Aintree, but just posted it now ![]() |
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Membership accepted, well chief.
Utterly fantastic performance and congratulations to Paul Carberry for a fine ride first time on board. Top rated chaser of the season, based on his Aintree win and doubtless even higher now. The one regret may be that they opted out of the Gold Cup this season. Hopefully, he'll get his chance next year. Stamina can surely no longer be doubted; this race was run at electric speed - just 7 seconds above standard despite the softened ground. Putting seven lengths between himself and Djakadam (who himself pulled clear of Road to Riches) was phenomenal. We've come to see a trademark of his being a few strides where he looks in trouble - same happened at Aintree - and then the turbo engages and he zooms clear. Now is not the time to analyse next year's Gold Cup, except to say that Don Poli, R to R and Djakadam haven't enhanced their chances this week, Coneygree may well be ground dependant and while Vautour, has the potential to be the next coming, so did Don Poli before yesterday. Seldom been more delighted with not just the outcome but the way he demolished a top class field. The fans will have supped well tonight. |
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Can't let the season rest before adding a few final thoughts.
Don Cossack now has the two Racing Post top rated performances of the season by any horse, namely 179 and 181, which puts him clear of any current chaser and heading towards Kauto Star territory if he can maintain these levels and improve a little more. I don't know what Timeform or official ratings say. He's been ridden by seven different jockeys in his 13 chases; strangely, his four Grade One victories have come without Bryan Cooper's assistance; Russell, O'Connell, McCoy and Carberry have taken these. In his twelve completions over fences, the only times he has not improved his RP rating were at Punchestown last season, when over the top and on this season's debut. He has now shown versatility in terms of course, going, jockey and distance and the comments on this thread of "snaffle horse', "bridle ponce", can't win left-handed, doesn't stay, etc have been consigned to the bin. I still feel he's not quite as appreciated as he might be; in my view, he should be Gold Cup favourite, but that can be a story for next season. The way he pulled clear, with just a few taps from his jockey, of two horses that only just failed to win the Gold Cup was fantastic. Tremendously well trained, and still referred to by Bryan Cooper after winning the Kinloch Brae as only just coming into himself, Don Cossack is now a star, the like of which we seldom see. Have a good summer, Don! |
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I've just studied his Racing Post ratings and I believe Don Cossack is under-rated with 5-10 pounds. Should've already be given an 185 or 190 rating based on his last 2 performances, but the RP handicappers took a highly safe view of that form and only rated him 181 on both occasions. If Don keeps his form into the next season it'll be very hard to not win the Gold Cup as we don't know yet of a horse capable of running to those marks. Don Poli, Vautour, Djakam or Coneygree will all need to improve to get to him. Fantastic race. As much as Champion hurdle was the race of this year festival, the Gold Cup is guaranteed to be the race of the next.
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Good to see Don Cossack already being entered (in the same race he re-appeared in last year) on Thursday, though unlikely he'll run as its good to firm already with little rain about.
I think his campaign will work backwards from the three Festivals he's contested in each of the past two years. The King George looks like the early target with perhaps the John Durkan or Betfair beforehand. Assuming he misses out this week, we could well see his reappearance at Down Royal, either in the JN Wine, or the race he won last year. Timtim's previous post makes sense; the rating at Aintree is particularly perplexing |
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Hopefully he didn't lost any of his form over the summer and will confirm it with Road to Riches on Thursday.
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not at all convinced the Gold cup winner has to improve to beat the Ryanair 3rd, I am presuming both horses were trained to peak in March though...
Certainly DC has improved a lot last season,but I would be wary of performances at the end of the season with horses that may have been over the top. Time wil tel if the ratings are wrong,they maybe but then again.........let's see how he gets on with the top horses during the season. Do look forward to seeing him this season for sure,he's exciting,and one of a bloody good bunch of stayers we have right now. |
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Well, via Djakadam and Road to Riches, he has. I don't see any reason why those two ran less well at Punchestown than Cheltenham. Both jumped superbly at the former, were in with every chance two out and Djakadam was level at the last and quickly outpaced. It was only his fourth race of the season and he'd had a six week break after Cheltenham. That's why DC was rated highest chaser and we shall, indeed, see if that was a correct assessment. What a great season in prospect.
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yes absolutely,strictly on the form with RTR and Djak he is entitled to be rated highest.
I am just wary of form after Cheltenham,always have been. Gonna be great finding out,don't think I have ever been so excited about the 3 milers as I am this season.t |
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Completely agree budd. Something special looms I feel and whatever the outcome we should see some epics.
Not just the top five in the betting but some cracking bit-part players who could also come right into the picture. For me, one of the first questions is whether the new kids can outpoint Silviniaco early season in the Betfair and King George. He's as good a yardstick as you'll get and will make them all go in those races. |
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They'll keep RTR separated from Don apparently "He's in at Down Royal (JNwine.com Champion Chase), but if Noel (Meade, trainer of Road To Riches) goes there he'll miss it. If he doesn't he could go. He's also entered in Haydock (Betfair Chase)."
Nice return to the new grass btw. |
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"Quietly Flows the Don" was a great novel written by Sholokhov, the equine version of whom is the sire of Don Cossack.
I can think of no better description of his flawless performance yesterday. Floating over his fences like quicksilver, he looked like he was doing a half-speed the whole way. Yes, an egg and spoon, but if he can do that at "80/85% fit", us followers can only drool about what might be to come. Just hope there are no repercussions from running him on good to firm. |
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A penalty kick in theory tomorrow though I suppose Rocky Creek could make him go if in the same form as when he won at Kempton off top weight in February. A loss would be a severe blow to us disciples.
Strange how Road to Riches was pulled out, not because it seemed a good idea to run them against each other but because connections said all week that they would. Maybe wanting to put off the opposition? |
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would love to see him at haydock maybe a change of mind possible
i think he needs to be there |
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I suspect he won't head there. They seem to be fairly set on King George, Gold Cup, then Punchestown. No problem with that, though the Betfair may cut up and be very winnable, thus could be tempting with the bonus.
We can't get too carried away by today and one could sense Elliott's slight frustration that the jockey popped quite a few fences and seldom asked him to stretch. When he did, there were some spectacular leaps. A fantastic start to the season and franked in no uncertain terms by the twice thrashed Cue Card at Wetherby. We can only keep dreaming. The plot of the season for him has yet to emerge but it's fair to say that Gigginstown are now planning around him rather than seeing him as one of a bunch of possibles, as last year. |
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Saturday's performance would have me mildly concerned.....outclassed them but jumped generally average....wouldn't put it all down to not stretching him out.
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Wouldn't concern me in the least. A slow pace, with Cooper determined to stay at the back, explains all. He could have elected to take up the running, as happened three times last season, and then we might have seen the real Don. But don't forget this was a Grade 1 (even if in name only) and why take any chances when you know you have the field covered?
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backed for KGV and GC
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With the Christmas showdowns imminent, it may be a good time to take stock of where Don Cossack's hopes lie. Interesting that, when he had his two seasons where many felt he was under-achieving, this thread was buzzing and yet, since his Aintree win and three subsequent victories, very few posts have appeared. How we love to knock them.
The season could hardly have started better for the Don. Not just his two facile victories but the way in which his form last season has been boosted. Aintree victims Cue Card and Al Ferof have franked the form, as have the resounding performances of Djakadam and Road to Riches. Djakadam now seems to be gaining traction in many people's minds as a potential Gold Cup winner this year, and he may well be. However, if you look again at Punchestown, you will see that Don Cossack did beat him very decisively. Putting seven lengths between them from the last to the winning post in a short run-in was emphatic. And I certainly wouldn't buy into Djakadam being over the top. It was just his fourth run of the season (as opposed to the Don's seventh), and he'd had a six week break after Cheltenham. He certainly ran with great enthusiasm, jumped perfectly and simply was outspeeded by a horse with another gear. At six, Djakadam may well improve, but then so may Don Cossack. The way he finished last year suggested very much that his star was ascending. There are other threads arguing the merits of Gold Cup contenders and form lines between them are few. However, those that there are point firmly to Don Cossack as the horse who has achieved a higher level of form thus far than any other contender. |
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That was a pretty gruelling Gold Cup though Cyclops,would have taken a fair bit out of Djakadam and RTR I would think.
For sure though,we all know DC is a major player. So are a few others!! |
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So what are people's views on the Don re the Gold Cup now that the dust has settled?
The King George has raised a lot more questions for me, when I was hoping it'd solve them. Have to admit I was disappointed with the Don's run, even before his fall. He was probably winding himself up for a big challenge, and who knows where he would have finished, but I thought he'd travel a lot better than he did throughout the race, where he seemed to get outpaced at crucial times, with Cooper having to waste energy to try and get position back. That would concern me for the Gold Cup. Also, how the fall will effect him too. When he had his previous only fall, he didn't really show up in his next two races - I have no idea whether the fall effected his confidence or whether he is a different horse now, but it is food for thought. Also, straight to the Gold Cup, almost three months away, without a prep isn't the ideal preperation. Anyways, not knocking him, but I've always had my slight doubts about him, and those doubts have re-emerged for me anyway. No doubt backers will put up a counter argument, as he would have finished a mile clear of fourth. |
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In the build up to yesterday's race a really good judge who i really rate who also loves DC made a few points not to back him.
The flat spot DC hit in his last race could cause problems if replicated because of the fast tempo of the KG. Don can clout a fence Bryan Coopers inexperience at kempton which is not an easy track to ride I backed Vautour but think DC would have won had he not fell. Hope DC is ok and has an outing before Cheltenham and if he puts it alltogether then he will win any race he runs in. |