Cheltenham Festival
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The Don Cossack fan club
The Don Cossack fan club
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Well that's a worry
 Maybe when they sit down and watch the race again they will see him staying on strongly,and not rule out the Gold Cup just yet. I live in hope. |
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Two and a half years after this thread started, all dreams are still permissible.
Particularly pleased with how he stretched away after the last. He doesn't quicken instantly - the others were snapping at his heels between the last two - but once he gets the turbo going, he stays on really well. In all three of this season's races, he's been steaming away in the last furlong. A few elements against him on Sunday; he was looking around a lot in front, he had a new jockey and he gave three out a good clout, but still perhaps his best performance. In terms of quality, Boston Bob was strongly fancied and seemed beaten on merit, despite the early hampering. It looked to me solid Grade One form. The time was particularly good compared with all other races on the card. Delighted that he'll miss the mid winter mudfests this season, although a soft race before Cheltenham might be better than no race at all. Like buddeliea, I'm on at huge prices for the Gold Cup, but that looks unlikely now. I don't think Elliott is branding him a non stayer, but I think he'll run in the Ryanair this season en route to a Gold Cup challenge next season, all being well. I'm not hearing too many "snaffle horse" jibes now. Let the fan club grow! |
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Yeh, It looks like hes Ryanair bound.
I do have Road to Riches as well for the Gold Cup, pretty sure he will be aimed at the Gold Cup after his last run. They will probably split them,makes sense I guess. |
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Think you're right, Bud, though I wouldn't incinerate your GC bets just yet. There's only one Gold Cup and a late volte face is entirely possible, depending on conditions, what else is in each race and the other Gigginstown horses. There's some pretty uninspiring horses heading the Gold Cup market at present.
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New member on board
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The only thing stopping me backing him in the Ryanair is all his recent wins have come in small fields, with only around 4 runners.
I don't know how he'd handle the hustle and bustle of a fast paced Ryanair. The quality opposition look pretty thin on the ground imo, especially with doubts over Simonsig and Cue Card seemingly past it. |
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Speaking following the win of his Noble Endeavor in the concluding race at Punchestown today, trainer Gordon Elliott confirmed his stable star Don Cossack a runner in Thurles' Kinloch Brae Chase on Thursday.
The Grand National winning trainer said Don Cossack is in good form and the plan is to go to Thurles next Thursday and all going well then on to the Ryanair (Chase at Cheltenham). RYANAIR..... Dynaste 5 Don Cossack 8 Cue Card 10 Champagne Fever 10 Johns Spirit 12 Balder Succes 12 Al Ferof 14 Taquin Du Seuil 16 Hidden Cyclone 16 Ballycasey 20 |
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Intriguing clash today. At the top of this thread, the best part of three years ago, I referred to Don Cossack and Champagne Fever as the best Irish bumper horses that year and here they are, meeting for the first time.
Very hard to call this one. Champagne Fever achieved more over hurdles but Don Cossack has arguably progressed further over fences. Very few relevant form lines, and I would not be confident either way. CF has to prove he's recovered from the King George and not throw in one of his below par efforts. DC needs to show he can match CF's speed, particularly if the race is slowly run. He's also got to concede 2lbs. Both horses operate on the ground and, on the evidence so far, are running at their optimum trips, although I retain a gut feeling that DC is a three miler. And then there's Texas Jack, who will stalk them, be ready to pounce if they go too fast, and provide a solid benchmark. Tactically, you would think CF will go to the front, but Ruby may have other plans. Honourable defeat would not necessarily compromise DC's Cheltenham chances - Elliott has said he believes him to be a better horse on good going. Let's hope we get a great race today. |
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Think he's a decent price in a two horse race today.
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Shame for CF there and great to see him back up on his feet ok. Think DC had him covered anyway....
Seems to be finally fulfilling his immense potential and the fan club should be growing  |
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I finally had a winning bet on the horse.
 as I was surprised he was 2nd fav with CF having to get over his KG run. Don't think he'd beat CF again under similar conditions (CF clearly not 100%) and can't say I fancy him for the Ryanair unless it's very soft. |
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I've never won a single penny on this fella, infact I don't ever recall backing him, but I think he's the most improved horse this season.
This time last year he was getting beat by Ballycasey over two and a half?? |
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A wonderful race, despite the last fence drama. From DC's point of view, this was just great. Answered all the questions CF put to him and seemed to me to have his measure, though CF is a great scrapper with a turn of foot, so no-one can be sure. What is certain is that DC had only been hit once and Cooper looked happy on him approaching the last.
With a break now before the Ryanair, perhaps time to reflect....... I think DC's progress is a tremendous testament to the way in which his trainer has campaigned him. It's a throwback to older times, in that, while the vogue has been for younger maturing, precocious types, DC looks just like the prototype of the old fashioned chaser. It used to be widely accepted that nine years old was the optimum age for a chaser, and DC has been brought along in that vein. Looking at his RP ratings over the years, there has been a steady, almost linear progression in his performances. While hurdles were never likely to show him to best advantage (as intimated at the top of this thread)he has thrived since chasing and looks every inch a top notch performer now. Impervious to going, course and possibly distance, he has only really ever put in two below par performances; against Pont Alexandre over hurdles and at Punchestown last season, when he was surely over the top at the end of a long season and on the back of a hard race at Aintree. That DC has arrived as a Grade One performer can't be argued with; the next challenge is to see if he can progress still further and win a Championship race. Whatever happens in the Ryanair, I feel sure they will look at three miles next season to see whether they have a Gold Cup horse. I believe they have. |
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Good work Cyclops - hope you're on him at big prices for the Ryanair. I think the fact they have largely kept him over 2 and a half this year has been a big reason in his improvement.
Missed the prices for the Ryanair, so won't be backing him, but he's the most likely winner in my book. |
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Indeed, well chief, though my first investments were at 220/1 for the Gold Cup back in October, so if he were heading there, that would be something. Whether or not two and a half miles is the reason for this year's progression, I wouldn't want to say at present. I have no doubt he gets three miles; the question is whether he's as good over that trip and he just hasn't had the chances to prove that either way. The Ryanair could be a hot one this year but he's thoroughly earned his place and I couldn't have Dynaste as better than him myself.
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Does the small runner fields issue bother you at all mate?
I know he can only beat what is put in front of him, and a lot of Irish G2's can have really small turnouts (not a dig at Irish racing CV!), but his recent wins have been 4 runner race, 6 runner race, 3 runner race, 4 runner race, 6 runner race etc. To go back to the last time he won in a field of 10 or more is a maiden hurdle. My one concern would be racing at a frantic pace in a fairly big pack in the Ryanair, similar to the RSA last year. Re the 3m - I have no doubt he gets it, but I don't think he'd get it well enough to win a Gold Cup imo. Around Cheltenham, I think the Ryanair is his trip, but something like the Aintree Bowl would be perfect for him. An easyish 3m, usually only half a dozen runners and tends to be good ground. |
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Not thought of large fields as a problem to DC. Faced them in his bumpers and in his hurdle win but has only encountered one double figure field since, when he fell. I'd prefer if he'd gone round Cheltenham before but, given his great jumping, that's a minor qualm.
Harking back to the Kinloch Brae, and having just watched it again, what impresses me about him is his ability to get away from a fence. He propped at the second, put in a slow jump on the second circuit, and put in an extra stride two out, but hardly lost any ground at all. For such a big horse, he is nimble and athletic. Other than in the RSA, he's never looked like falling and he's won all his races this season with great jumps at the last. While he's only gone right-handed this season, I think left could suit him better now; he lugged a little to the left in more than one race this season and has jumped that way to some extent as well. Just really chuffed with his progress, but hoping for more. |
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I hope he can do what Imperial Commander did
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his wins, apart from bumpers and maiden hurdle, are all on right handed tracks.
And apart from the bumper at fairyhouse he's not won the other side of February. He cannot win at cheltenham no matter what race he goes in |
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"cannot win"
A statement from the blind punters charter. |
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^^^^^^ harsh but true
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Career record left handed: 111F32F2
All races after February: 1F24 Left handed after February: 1F2 Are you quite all right? |
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"There are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics"
Another case of using the stats to suit your argument. |
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Meaning?
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The form figures of a single horse don't qualify as statistics. Statistics would have been to collect particular characteristics from all horses population to suit his argument/s, however cyclops gave no such general stats but only one single horse form for left handed tracks which proves the above @cacique was wrong..
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Cyclops, ,meaning i'm in agreement with you but Cacique is using selective stats/facts that suit his argument.
The Don has not shown any awkward tendencies running left-handed anymore than when being beaten going right handed. Simply, it's all come together for him this season and I can't wait to see him roaring up the home straight at Chelters! A nice bit of 8/1 in my portfolio makes it even sweeter :) (added to the Giggy double with NMH in the Bartlett) |
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I'm with you Rathgorman. Whatever beats the Don at Cheltenham, it won't be because he's going left-handed. The nice part about the anticipation is that he goes on any going. I guess in an ideal world, we might wish for the unlikely very soft going, as that might inconvenience rivals but Elliott is on record as saying he's better on good going these days, so we're not worried either way.
PS, don't think Cacique is using any stats or facts |
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I stated
!his wins, apart from bumpers and maiden hurdle, are all on right handed tracks. And apart from the bumper at fairyhouse he's not won the other side of February. He cannot win at cheltenham no matter what race he goes in! Provided by cyclops cyclops • January 22, 2015 10:39 AM GMT Career record left handed: 111F32F2 All races after February: 1F24 Left handed after February: 1F2 You are in agreement with me so. He has never won a chase going left handed after February!! The ryanair is a left handed chase. |
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What's your winner then.
We can line up a match bet. |
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cacique, if you base your findings on a sample of two races (in one of which the horse fell) I think you may be in for disappointment.
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This race could be the race of the festival. But I won't be looking to the Don to win it.
His last 5 races have been righthanded, why has Eliot not run him left handed, even in a prep around Naas or somewhere? I think they missed a trick not going for king George, which he would have won, then on for the Irish national and finish off with punchestown. Missing the king George was a mystery to me. |
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Was/is there a suitable prep race at Naas/Navan/Leopardstown? Personally I think he's been very well placed this season.
He missed the King George because he ran in the Durkan three weeks earlier and that was already his third run of the season. The King George would have been his fourth run in 10 weeks. I don't particularly fancy him for the Ryanair but opposing him on the basis of statistics from a sample of two races, one of which he fell in, seems very strange to me. |
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3 races left handed in chases , you guys are not giving this one up!!
In chases, hes runs on right handed tracks and wins. If he wasn't owned by O'leary would he not go straight for Gold Cup?? He is a horse of a lifetime, but i think he's being very badly managed. |
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In chases, hes runs on right handed tracks and wins.
the GC is left handed mate hth |
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No flies on you alleged!! Think everyone came to that conclusion.
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More to the point is the question of whether he's good enough... I wouldn't be put off him going left-handed personally but while I think he's a big player I also feel he lacks the brilliance that might be needed to win a Grade One at the Festival. I don't think Champagne Fever was at his best last time and am not convinced DC has actually improved as much as people seem to think this term. I have always liked him and am not knocking a horse who keeps winning good races but just wonder if he'll find one or two a bit too good on the day.
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good point tom, wrt champagne fever, this is another horse that has been badly managed. running in 3m then 2 1/2, and now prob go for queen mother, doesn't make any sense.
If Al Ferof goes for the ryanair then i'd fancy him. If betfair do an a v b with the don and al ferof, i'll defo take al ferof. |
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id defo take alf aswell
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Another rival falls by the wayside to clear the path for The Don to earn his Ryanair wings :)
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