Forums

Cheltenham Festival

There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 833 comments are related to the topic:
Supreme Novices

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
Page 14 of 21  •  Previous | 1 | ... | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | ... | 21 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 833
By:
differentdrum
When: 17 Feb 12 16:51
Montbazon pretty impressive but I think everything fell right - no pun intended - for him today. Ground might be too slow for him on the opening day and too many placed efforts on his record for my liking. Vulcanite bubble burst and will presumably head for Aintree. Obviously Darlan travelled well but we can only guess what would have happened - personally I have a feeling he would have just found the one pace and finished out of the money. The balance of his previous form is pretty ordinary and it may be dangerous to get carried away with what might have been. One things for sure a fall like that is no good to any horse.
By:
SN02
When: 17 Feb 12 16:53
'Darlan was very good indeed' - what about Monty?
By:
sintonian
When: 17 Feb 12 17:23
Going was Good to Soft, Soft in places on the hurdle track. Pretty much what it'll be on Day 1 unless they have an inordinate amount of the wet stuff.
By:
buddeliea
When: 17 Feb 12 17:46
SNO2,
He was very good as well mate
By:
zilzal1
When: 17 Feb 12 18:31
Sint, it didnt walk like soft in places today, bit patchy in places though
By:
strontium
When: 17 Feb 12 19:01
I'm not wholly sure what to make of Montbazon. He won which is obviously a positive and he had a couple of decent horses behind (Vulcanite and All the Aces) who tie in with other form lines. Montbaz hurdled pretty poorly (but still won). Yet he just looked very workmanlike on the run in - maybe he lacks the necessary stamina for the supreme and I'd be surprised if there isn't something finishing better. Tough to rate taht form for me.
By:
wellchief
When: 17 Feb 12 19:10
I thought this week would really sort the betting out for this race, and if anything it's made it more complicated and unclear!!

The openess is highlighted by the different views the bookies have taken.

Galileo's Choice is fav or joint fav with 5; Simonsig is 9, Steps to Freedom is 1, Midnight Game is 1 and Montbazon is 1.  I don't think there is another race at the festival with such a wide variety of favs or joint favs.

Galileo's Choice put in a good performance, but you have to question what he beat.  I think there are others that have put up better performances this year, but you can only beat what is put in front of you.  Dermot Weld very rarely brings them over to the Festival, so he demands respect.

A quick side question re Galileo's Choice - does anyone have a view about the fact he is going back on the flat in the summer?  I personally don't see that as a positive.  I know he's done it with Unaccompanied, but once a horse goes hurdling I like them to stay hurdling / National Hunt and not mixing codes.  Anyway......

Then there is Simonsig, who I think has been discussed enough on here for now, but it is unclear where he will go, which adds further complications.

Montbazon showed a really likeable attitude today and he impressed me.  Debateable whether he would have won or not, but the way he picked up off the bridle is one attribute that not many at the top of the market have shown yet, so that is a massive positive for me (I see the bookies are split on him with PP 7's and others 12's.  I'd go somewhere in between and I think there are worse bets at the moment than 12's for Montbazon).

That run also brings Tetlami firmly into the equation.  Montbazon gave beat Vulcanite 7 lengths today off levels.  Tetlami beat Vulcanite 3 1/2 lengths and giving 5lbs, so those two are very close on a line through Vulcanite.

Colour Squadron is similar to Darlan.  He was going really well in the Betfair and who knows what might have happened.  He has gone up in my estimations after today, and it will be interesting what they do with him now, and if he's any worse for wear after the fall.

Earlier in the week Cash and Go was travelling well but blew up and has scoped badly.  His price has doubled on here to 66, maybe CCM could give us an update please?

So overall, I'm still as unclear now as I was last week (except now all the prices are shorter Grin).  Simnonsig is my bet, but Montbazon, Tetlami, Darlan and to a lesser extent Colour Squadron are all more firmly in the picture for me now.

I've began to forget that Steps to Freedom and Cinders and Ashes exist Laugh
By:
wellchief
When: 17 Feb 12 19:11
^^^ PS Sorry if that's all just waffle
By:
strontium
When: 17 Feb 12 19:24
I wonder how G-S the ground actually was today since Sprinter Sacre and Long run apparently both broke course records (on the chase course I know, but still....)
By:
zilzal1
When: 17 Feb 12 19:28
It wasnt Stron imo, i walked a bit of the straight and there didnt seem a lot of give there, i would have said it was good ground
By:
roobuck
When: 17 Feb 12 19:50
I agree with zilzal and after all the Betfair was only 4 seconds slower than standard and they crawled the first 6-7f.

I have actually backed three for this race Darlan, Montbazon and Vulcanite so today could have been a disaster. That being said I see only Montbazon now having a realistic chance because as well as Darlan ran, it was a heavy fall and I would be surprised if the report 'stiff and bruised' did not come out in the next couple of days. They may well wait for Aintree. If fully recovered and took his chance, he would be a serious player

I think wellchief summed up Montbazon very well.

Like wellchief I am now more confused about the race so with odds only likely to go one way, I shall leave it at that for this race
By:
sintonian
When: 17 Feb 12 20:03
Given that none of us seem able to separate this lot on form or ability, lets identify the best STATS pick. I know some people dont like stats, but at least it will given an idea of which horse has been prepared correctly and mirrors previous winners of the race.

-------------------------------------------------------
The traditional curtain raiser for four days of festival action, the Supreme Novices' Hurdle is for horses who had not won a race over timber at the season's start. Run over the same course and distance as the Champion Hurdle, it offers the first real glance at the jumping stars of the future.


RACE TRENDS:


■13 of the last 15 winners won last time out
■8 of the last 20 winners had one or two previous starts over hurdles
■11 of the last 12 winners ran in the previous 45 days
■33 of the last 37 winners were aged five or six
■Only one four-year-old winner since 1973
■The Irish have won 7 of the last 11 renewals
■Only 3 favourites won in the last 20 renewals
■3 of the last 16 horses to start at 3/1 or shorter have won
■6 of the last 14 winners started in the front two of the betting
■4 of the 5 previous years' Champion Bumper winners have been beaten (last four years)
By:
shockster
When: 17 Feb 12 20:12
Everybody is confused about this race. It is glaringly obvious.  Can somebody tell Henderson SIMONSIG has winner written all over him.
By:
sintonian
When: 17 Feb 12 20:23
On paper i'd say Galileo's Choice,Simonsig and Montbazon have had the best preparations for this race. All three had the mid-winter off (December to late January), are last time out winners, within 45 days, and have the right blend of class/experience having won 2/3 hurdles races.
By:
marychain1
When: 17 Feb 12 20:25
good summary wellchief. I dont have a clue about this race yet, and havent had a bet. I am willing to wait and see what turns up. I would never have picked Al Ferof last year, so even if I had three different picks at this stage there's a good chance I wouldnt find the winner.
By:
R Carver
When: 17 Feb 12 20:26
Mono Man should be interesting this week.
By:
sintonian
When: 17 Feb 12 20:28
Only 24 days to go ladies/genst! Excited
By:
roobuck
When: 17 Feb 12 20:36
Shockster you have just proved that everyone IS confused about the race LaughLaugh
By:
zilzal1
When: 17 Feb 12 20:39
Tetlami with Prospect wells as a saverCool
By:
shockster
When: 17 Feb 12 20:47
Roo I will only be confused if SIMONSIG does not run.  I may well be in a daze alsoSad
By:
roobuck
When: 17 Feb 12 20:53
Can't disagree with you there - NJH may keep you waiting however Confused
By:
judorick
When: 17 Feb 12 21:11
nice to see Galileo's fitting the trends nicely
By:
Masterminded
When: 17 Feb 12 21:58
Have to say I think Darlan was about to go and do what he has been set out to do all season. 3 undercooked easy runs to get a mark and win the Betfair hurdle. Of course nobody knows what would have happened had he stood up but he really was travelling powerfully and has proved to my eye he is no bridle horse when he battled back at Cheltenham. I hope he wasn't too shaken up after that horrible fall but even to be travelling like that off of a very high mark for a novice was pretty impressive. He should go on to be a v high class horse I think.
By:
sintonian
When: 17 Feb 12 22:24
I think you've made a crucail point re Darlan, MM. He had been trained for the Betfair Hurdle all season.
By:
TITCH 1
When: 17 Feb 12 22:29
Not sure about that, wasn't very strong in the market for that to be the case imo.
Do believe we still have a lot to come though.
By:
wellchief
When: 17 Feb 12 22:34
Will the handicapper put him up after today?

Maybe a handicap "good thing" at the festival?
By:
strontium
When: 17 Feb 12 23:02
That was a horrible form. The horse is bound to be very sore after that. I'd be wary of backing him at the Festival, epsecially as some sort of good thing, unless he's bouncing in the parade ring.
By:
strontium
When: 17 Feb 12 23:03
*fall
By:
roobuck
When: 18 Feb 12 00:02
I agree with MM that Darlan could be very good though would be wary of backing him again at Cheltenham if he pitches up for the loss of confidence, bruised and sore reasons already mentioned.

I know sint and others don't particularly rate the horse but I put forward this

2010 - GMOOH wins the Betfair off 135 and then runs 2nd in an average Supreme.
2011 - Recession Proof wins Betfair off 134 and then runs 5th in a very good supreme

Darlan was running a massive race off 146 in what my opinion was a much better race than the last two years and this year's Supreme could be very average - please note the word 'could'. Obviously a leap of faith to know where he would have finished and what he would have found in the final furlong, but it is not hard to imagine a fully recovered Darlan going very, very well.
By:
R Carver
When: 18 Feb 12 00:05
For possibly the first time ever, I have to disagree with MM. Darlan was running a race full of promise for one so inexperienced and clearly has some ability, but I just wonder if it was too far out to say with confidence anything firm about the horse.
By:
R Carver
When: 18 Feb 12 00:07
I also wonder if he wants a flat track (they seemed genuinely a bit surprised in December he how struggled, though i know they are not machines) and that fall could easily have left a mark. Certainly a horse full of promise in an open yr though.
By:
marychain1
When: 18 Feb 12 00:18
I think GMOOH ran to the level they thought it would, give a take a pound or two, which makes me think that as McCoy chose to ride Darlan instead, that it would have been right up there with Zarkander. Got to have a good chance in the opener, assuming fully recovered.
By:
judorick
When: 18 Feb 12 00:24
I will be treating the Betfair hurdle form with extreme caution (Danger Will Robinson) because they went very slowly for the first mile and, I mean, they were walking. Clearly though he is a talented horse to be travelling that easily seeing they had just turned the taps on and everything was trying to quicken up yet he was cruising

I just question what would have been happening had they gone Championship pace from the start (imagine Celestial Halo and Overturn taking each other on for the lead and only running out of puff as they come to the third last) and I will want to see him run in a fast run race before forming a clearer picture.
By:
roobuck
When: 18 Feb 12 00:38
judo that is a very valid point and to be honest one I used to put a slight dampener on the Simonsig performance - only right the same argument put against today's run

Another thing I guess is that there will always be hurdles to jump
By:
Masterminded
When: 18 Feb 12 01:00
I'm not surprised a few have disagreed with me regarding Darlan because like you say R Carver it was a long way out and I do feel because of the way he's been campaigned people have doubt's about him. But sometimes you just get that feeling with a horse when everything is falling into place and I did get that with Darlan today. Every time AP gave him a little nudge he picked off another runner and I could not see him from where he was finishing behind Raya Star or GMOOH. The fall is definitely a concern for Chelt as is possibly the course if you take his Chelt form literally. I do think he has a great chance & echo the points roobuck made about novices who won weaker renewals of this race off a much lower mark going on to run well in the Supreme. Bar the fall today would have done him the world of good learning to jump and race in such a competitive and large field of runners. Look it's an open race this year and I would just think he will go pretty close. I'm pretty sure JP & Nicky think a lot of him.
By:
R Carver
When: 18 Feb 12 01:06
Interesting MM, you make a persuasive case. On the Betfair Hurdle thread i was dead against him for today, and he was in the process of running a much bigger race than I expected, so it is quite possible my earlier negative view is clouding my view of his run today. A real pity he fell and it iwll be very interesting to see how he steps forward. Certainly deserves to go on after a shocking fall at the end of a cracking run.
By:
Slabster
When: 18 Feb 12 02:16
Can't believe some of the comments on here re Robbie McNamara. He's one of the top amateurs around, maybe the best, with plenty of big race experience. If it wasn't for his height he'd be one of the top professionals riding in Ireland, of that I have little doubt. When people see a jockey is an amateur, they think they musn't be good enough to turn pro, but in fairness Robbie can't. I'd rate him up alongside Jamie Codd, Derek O'Connor and Nina Carberry as the best amateurs around, and better than the majority of professionals. He didn't do anything wrong on Rite Of Passage at Cheltenham and I see no reason why he'd be any more likely to make a mistake than Paul Townend.
By:
alleged22
When: 18 Feb 12 13:57
oscar nominee is my selection, he hated the heavy ground when last seen behind cinders and ashes, but made up a lot of ground in the run in, i helped myself to the 309-1 available earlier in the week, i see the biggest price it is now is around 60-1, expect that to quarter when it wins well on wednesday
By:
stevo1
When: 18 Feb 12 16:55
Think Colour Squadron would have gone close to Montbazon, overpriced if recovering from fall have backed both at bigger odds.
By:
Tory
When: 18 Feb 12 17:32
Have we heard from CCM how Cash and Go is?

I've had a bit e/w @ 14's Cryand whilst I wont back him again as he misses the key stat of being a last time out winner, would still be interesting to know if Supreme is still the plan.

Shame is was lame / scoped badly as had he won he'd be the clear trends pick. Of course, he may have not won last time even if 100% but was certainly travelling like the best horse in the race
Page 14 of 21  •  Previous | 1 | ... | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | ... | 21 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
‹ back to topics
www.betfair.com