Cheltenham Festival
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Sprinter Sacre - Arkle Winner 2012
Sprinter Sacre - Arkle Winner 2012
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Bog Warrior not out ?
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yes he was race fit but so was SS, his career high mark was achieved by finishing 25 lengths behind Sizing europe, id say hes run to low 140,s in the game spirit
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Scratching made for 12
The remainder pay scratching deadline fee Age st lb Al Ferof (FR) (Mr J. Hales) Paul Nicholls.......................................................................... 7 11 7 Astracad (FR) (Mr H. R. Mould) Nigel Twiston-Davies ............................................. 6 11 7 Blackstairmountain (IRE) (Mrs S. Ricci) W. P. Mullins, Ireland.............................. 7 11 7 Bog Warrior (IRE) (Gigginstown House Stud) A. J. Martin, Ireland ..................... 8 11 7 Call The Police (IRE) (DD Racing Syndicate) W. P. Mullins, Ireland ..................... 9 11 7 Cristal Bonus (FR) (Mr R. J. H. Geffen) Paul Nicholls ............................................... 6 11 7 Cue Card (Mrs Jean R. Bishop) Colin Tizzard ................................................................ 6 11 7 Foildubh (IRE) (Mr John Patrick Ryan) John Patrick Ryan, Ireland ........................ 8 11 7 Kid Cassidy (IRE) (Mr John P. McManus) Nicky Henderson.................................... 6 11 7 Lucky William (IRE) (Garden Kingdom Syndicate) Thomas Cooper, Ireland ... 8 11 7 Menorah (IRE) (Mrs Diana L. Whateley) Philip Hobbs.............................................. 7 11 7 Nearest The Pin (IRE) (Sox Syndicate) A. J. Martin, Ireland.................................. 7 11 7 Peddlers Cross (IRE) (Mr T. G. Leslie) Donald McCain ........................................... 7 11 7 Sir des Champs (FR) (Gigginstown House Stud) W. P. Mullins, Ireland.............. 6 11 7 Sprinter Sacre (FR) (Mrs Caroline Mould) Nicky Henderson ............................... 6 11 7 BW still in  |
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ok so low 140s for ISL, what does that mean SS ran to having given him 5lbs and beat him 8.75 lengths "on the bridle" as stated in the in running comments in the race analysis?
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Gonna be a tinyyyy field
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Tom Scu said he was happy with is lad in the Game Spirit, just no match for the winner.
Would be surprised if more than 10 line up in the Arkle and that assumes all the fancied ones get there. |
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I should say that on 6 of his last 8 chase starts I'm So Lucky has been awarded an RPR of 149 or higher and was rated 150 for the race against SS so I would be interested to know why he should suddenly run well below his established form. Might it be because it suits your point of view to say so?
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weve not seen him off the bridal though yet???? an 80% fit al ferof beat ISL 14 lengths off levels
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i suspect thats something you have done as well on the odd occasion - suits your point of view
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he did indeed Alleged,you are quiet correct
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its nice to hear other peoples opinions, think it will be the race of the meeting
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When ISL ran in the VC that was just his second start of the season and came only 14 days after his seasonal debut - he got an RPR of 149 and a Topspeed of 116. 27 days after that on his third start he runs against SS and records an RPR of 150 and a Topspeed of 145.
My conclusion is that he improved significantly from his second to third appearances yet was dismissed comprehensively. |
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These Arkle/Sacre threads have just descended into pathetic pocket talking. Regular posters just continually repeating and re-hashing the same points.
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Agree sint.
I very rarely check this thread now, and havent looked at the Sprinter Cant Win the Arkle thread since last week |
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Hard to believe that FO ran to his best on seasonal debut when he never has before. If he ran below form that so did ISL! The big 2m oval track could explain the latter's run, even if you ignore Mordin's theory, as a young horse he got tired on such tracks. Doncaster handicap 3 years ago, Prominent, headway to lead 6th, ridden along 5 out, headed next, soon driven and gradually weakened, easily beaten in a Newbury novice chase with nothing of note behind. Pulled up in a handicap hurdle at Newbury. Definitely a potential explanation.
Topspeed says one thing btw, the more reliable and accurate Raceform says another. Time figure very very slow on their measures. In fact SS has yet to do a Raceform timefigure as fast as most Arkle winners manage before the race. |
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when someone wants to claim something I want them to back it up with some sort of evidence other than gut feeling or supposition so I would like to know why the poster thinks ISL ran below form at Newbury when respectable industry sources say he improved from Ascot to Newbury
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thieves, speed ratings aren't really my thing, so please could you explain how a horse gets a low time figure when it breaks a 20-odd year old course record?
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yeh,i quit that thread Wellchief,think i will quit this one as well now.
like Sint says,its all been said,and i would like to apologise for my part in any repetition and if ive been boring people. |
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ISL when upped to grade 1,s has been beaten 19 lengths 25 lengths 37 lengths and 21 lengths
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been 145 more replies since I last looked at this thread WellChief. We know the arguments for and against every runner now. An interesting piece of analysis from Thieves/Judo in the last few posts though I must admit and worth reading.
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Stront - as you will know,times are measured relative to calculated standards. Raceform's are in my view more accurate than TS's. SS's time was fast compared to standard but not by nearly as much as Long Run or Zarkandar in their races. All times were fast indicating the ground was riding quick. There are very few good class races run over that c and d and those that are are at this February meeting and usually on much softer ground so there are few opportunities for that old record to be broken. The record was set in a weakish handicap chase in which Barnbrook Again doddled up under 12st so not necessarily such a strong one to beat. Bear in mind that Burton Port also beat the previous course record off a huge lay off, you wouldn't suggest he was significantly better than other c and d winners over 3m, such as a peak form Denman, as a result?
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can peddlers really beat the machine
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peddlers coudnt live with him b4 and it will be the same again march the 13th
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Thanks Thieves, that's very helpful. Cheers.
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he,s not a machine though he,s a highly strung animal that hasnt been off the bridal yet, with not enough experience imo! AF has been round c & d already gained experience at sandown jumping the railway fences at speed (ideal place to send a novice chaser) and faced his elders when 80% fit with respect
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Alleged,you on Al Ferof at a good price mate?
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WALOFS
If you seriously think AF was 80% fit when taking on FR & Somersby you need to give up punting. This is what I mean about pocket talking. Anyway, good luck with the thread! |
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Agree sint
Getting boring now It looks a great race in prospect, let's hope it lives up to our expectations |
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yeah ive been backing him all winter, good four figure pay day if he wins, if he loses to the next superstar. its no bother as just been putting part of the profit from other winners on him ;)
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i know for fact he was 80% cooked for the VC, I was shocked he was backed into favourite, never had a bean on him that day, sometimes its not what you know its who you know ;)
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bridal = your wife; bridle = your horse.
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taa for pointing out that typo stront
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alleged if certain people disagree with you its pocket talking,happened to me on here as well.
Yes,in a way i think we can all be a tad guilty of that,but speaking for myself its never meant that way,even if some interpret it that way. If they do,not a lot i can do about it. Personally i think it fair to think a horse can be not 100% a few weeks before his big target,and i think that can be mentioned as an opinion without being a pocket talking comment,but there yer go. |
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alleged if certain people disagree with you its pocket talking,happened to me on here as well.
Yes,in a way i think we can all be a tad guilty of that,but speaking for myself its never meant that way,even if some interpret it that way. If they do,not a lot i can do about it. Personally i think it fair to think a horse can be not 100% a few weeks before his big target,and i think that can be mentioned as an opinion without being a pocket talking comment,but there yer go. |
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oops!!
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It's pocket talking when there is no evidence or context to the opinion being put forwards Budde. It's obvious, and basic, and easily spotted.
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Hardly going to back the opposite of my opinions but as I'm only involved in this race on a probable non runner I am only advance pocket talking. If that helps.
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Thats fair Sint,people should try and back up certain comments,i see that.
Some people maybe dont want to type in a hundred words to just say their opinion though. I have to be honest,and i am here,i have never pocket talked knowing i was doing it.Yes i have tried to justify backing a horse against people who dont fancy it,and also given reasons why i think their particular fancy may not win.To me thats what this forum is about,and if the occasional pocket talking comment appears during the conversation,so what? As long as its not something along the lines of.....Look Al Ferof will win the Arkle cos ive backed it!! I just think its inevitable that a bit of pocket talking will happen on occasions. |
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yep true enough Budde.
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This is what Barry Geraghty said on the ATR website, you might not have read it.
Quote: SPRINTER SACRE: I'VE NEVER RIDDEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS As I was easing down crossing the line at Newbury on SPRINTER SACRE, a thought flashed across my mind – “Carlsberg don’t do two mile chasers, but if they did...” That’s how high I rate this horse – call him what you like, the business, the real deal, all I know is that he’s special and I’ve never ridden one like him. Moscow Flyer was brilliant but he’d doss in front and would beat a bad horse by two lengths the same as a good one. You’d call him unassuming in human terms but this horse is flamboyant. Nine times out of ten Moscow was a good jumper, but Sprinter Sacre is fast, I’ve never ridden a horse that can get from one side of a fence to the other like he does. In fairness to him, he was clever at a couple, which a horse needs to be at Cheltenham – concentrate on the job. He was breathtaking alright and he’s the sort of horse that jockeys wait for their whole career. You know, the only time he dropped the bit was over the last and won as he liked and still did it in a course record time. He just needs wrapping up in cotton wool and looking after as he's still got so much potential. Talking of cotton wool, that was a great comeback by BURTON PORT in the Denman Chase. He confirmed everything I thought after his good work a few weeks back and made Long Run go all the way to the line. He’s third favourite for the Gold Cup now and I’d like to think the run would have bought him on a good bit. It’s now a matter for the mechanics at Seven Barrows to keep the wheels in place for Cheltenham. |