Cheltenham Festival
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 1477 comments are related to the topic:
Sprinter Sacre - Arkle Winner 2012
Sprinter Sacre - Arkle Winner 2012
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 1,477
|
By:
* 'make no mistakes and turn up in the same level of form' I meant (the track holding no great fears for me, though we shall see).
|
|
By:
Long Run 174 judo? sounds familiar lol. I've given him a provisional 177 as I think he was suited by the flat galloping tack. That's based on WAF running to his usual 163. Same rating I have WAF at in last year's GC with LR at 174.
|
|
By:
I will probably be playing in running things like laying Menorah in the place market and laying whichever of the front runners shortens up and stuff like that knowing that SS and PC are going to be battling it out for the victory
|
|
By:
WAF seems a decent yardstick for this race. I haven't looked at rating it myself yet but it seems reasonable that Giant Bolster has put in a career best - he's quite progressive (and was better tha WAF at the weights if I'm not mistaken).
|
|
By:
yes Thieves
I can't be having any 182 for that race. That would mean The Giant Bolster ran a lifetime best by 5lbs and I have him running 3lb below his best. I could accept 177 if you allow me to say SWC was a 3lb penalty so as to upgrade the 174. Seriously with a top pro on he would get bigger numbers |
|
By:
Ok, i found myself convinced by the horse after yesterdays run but after all the furore has died down somewhat i wanted to just ask myself the nagging questions once again, questions that i'd still be worried about come the big day and there are 2 quite big concerns, that on reflection i don't seem to be able to shift:
1. I've looked back once again at the supreme and coming down that hill and turning in he is full of running , flicking his ears just like friday ...and then he goes out like a light....there is no period of coming under pressure where you visually see the process of the horse getting tired....it's simply from one to the other like a flick of a switch.People talking about the horse improving as an argument against that performance doesn't work for me as i think that this might be simply how he operates....now i know you can't call him a harchibald but in defence of that horse....he travelled with such a high cruising speed, he simply couldn't go any faster when a horse put it up to him and we still don't know if SS could go again...it's all very well seeing him striding effortlessly up the run in looking for all the world that he could go quicker but if another came to him and geraghty asked him to go quicker again...it could be that he could not do it. 2.Yesterday geraghty tried to settle the horse and get him to take a lead, crucially the horse was not having it and the jockey had to let him go on.In the arkle CC has enough talent and travelling ability to be able to maintain a good gallop for a long time, i thought that this would help geraghty as he will be able to travel in behind off a strong pace but actually i think that there is a strong possibility that the horse will simply refuse and the quicker they go, the quicker he'll go in a bid to have his own way, geraghty can't afford to fight the horse as whilst he does this the horse throws his head about quite markedly which can cause him to lose concentration...he is at risk of blowing himself out in this regard.The fact remains that in all of his education the stable have failed to teach the horse to settle in his races and i think that he is going to have to be as good as some are proclaiming and be able to win the race on the bridle as i don't see him being able to go again once challenged. |
|
By:
Duffy, re 1, there are several possible explanations, and all have merit (i've done them to death above) but on this specific point, I wonder if the wind op may be relevant? Only connections know for sure, but i would think the wind op (added tp the other issues (iffy ride, flattened the last, a baby the trainer was desperate not to run, pulled fo rthe first 4-6f of the race) might have ben aimed to addres this point (successfully or not).
|
|
By:
duffy. i became a big fan of this hores when he won a novice hurdle at Ascot. he pulled like a trian and hacked up. i could tell he was a hores with huge potential but was a big baby. in the supreme with the faster pace i think he settled pretty well. i think if CC does go very quick then SS will settle a lot better. i just think it's great that there is a novice as exciting as SS around and i hope he proves to be as good as he looks and that connections think he is. it's a pity the CC brigade are disappearing cos he may not have much to compete with next year and prove how good he actually is.
|
|
By:
SS didn't settle well in the Supreme, he was pulling AP's arms out. He didn't 'go out like a light', it was only approaching the last furlong he was headed and Al Ferof pulled clear. He was delivered too soon as well, probably not AP's fault though given the keen nature of the horse.
No one is mentioning the fact Henderson actually didn't want to take Sprinter Sacre to Cheltenham. He wanted to skip it as he thought it came too soon for the horse. Surely this, coming from Henderson, vindicates the fact that SS was too immature/not ready for that test at the time. I know he's a short price so every factor needs looking at, but from his three runs this season I think it's patently obvious that two miles round Cheltenham, even given a solid galop, aren't going to trouble him. He's clearly strengthened considerably. |
|
By:
There is a lot of nonsense kicking about here now
 |
|
By:
As a peddlers backer I had to watch supreme again to give myself any hope. Horse does look the real deal. In fairness i think the 6/4 is a good price on what we have seen this year, but i just have the feeling it all looks to simple and it wont win. We all know they do get beat.
|
|
By:
Looks the real deal maybe!!
At the moment hes a flashy bridle horse,with huge potential. Lets see what he can do when he has to work for victory as i suspect he will have to in the Arkle.Cue Card,ALFerof and PCross all stay well,and if SS comes off the bridle thats when we all find out exactly how much potential. |
|
By:
There is a lot of difference between a horse being good enough to win on the bridle to a bridle horse. If you watch when David Bass gave him a squeeze at Donny, when Barry gave him a few nudges at Kempton and even on Friday after the last Barry as a play about with the reigns to see what was left the horse as gone on again.
|
|
By:
MM that's right, he gave an inch of rein and the horse shot forward
it is not right to assume that he won't find anything off the bridle just because nothing he has faced so far has been good enough to get him off it |
|
By:
the arkle looks to be one of the best races of the festival this yr, SS looks great, but the concern i have is al ferof did him up the hill last yr and whose to say he wont again this yr, i backed al ferof at 8's and i think hes a great e.w bet at them prices, id rather be on al ferof ew than SS to win, although he was impressive on friday, but its a flat track, which is different to what he'll encounter at chelts
|
|
By:
Yes its not right assuming that,but i think it fair to have doubts that he will find whats needed.
Thats if he has to!! |
|
By:
exactly right! there has to be a chance that he has a stone in hand and will just laugh at them and a good one at that
I would be more worried about things like jumping the final open ditch at full championship pace which can catch any horse out |
|
By:
Fair enough,if he is that good we can all applaud a great horse,and look forward to seeing him in the future and enjoy him.
And i along with others will just have to hold my hands up. Nothing unusual there!!  |
|
By:
reminds me of the anticipation when Kauto was a 5/6 year old - we were all hoping he would be a good 'un and I doubt anyone knew quite how good
this horse could be like that or he could burn very brightly for a couple of seasons we shall have to see - win the Arkle impressively would be a good start |
|
By:
Never mentioned to the general public Raymond Mould owner of Sprinter Sacre has just said on ATR. "Sprinter Sacre had a wind operation after Cheltenham last year"
 |
|
By:
yeh,we did not know that i believe.
That puts a different perspective on his supreme run,especially as AP said he heeds an op straight after the race!! Owner just said its why he did not get up the hill. |
|
By:
owner also ruled out QM in that interview
|
|
By:
yep,and so they should.
|
|
By:
Think it has been mentioned before in one of the stable tours but not a very well known thing ss had a wind op. The bit that struck me the most in the interview was AP said straight after the race he had a wind problem. Shows that it wasn't just a bit of an afterthought and what a good run that was in hindsight.
|
|
By:
yes I knew he had a wind op
|
|
By:
I never knew that it had an Op
November 2011 Henderson has also warned that Sprinter Sacre, third in last season's Supreme Novices' Hurdle, is not a certain starter in the big novices' chase at Sandown on Saturday, the grade one Henry VIII Novices' Chase. Sprinter Sacre had a breathing operation in the summer. |
|
By:
Well we've got only just over 3 weeks to find out!
If the top 5 in the betting stand their ground, this will be the race of the week. Just hope BG keeps SS well out of Menorah's way. |
|
By:
Lets just knock this on the head finally, Henderson said way, way before the horse re-appeared that he had had a wind op and people have posted all over thr forum for months that his not getting up the hill was suggestive of a wind issue which may or may not have been rectified by his op.
|
|
By:
Tbf, the Supreme was always going to be the place were a wind issue would emerge, having come down the hill to be asked for an effort coming back up - it has found a huge number of horses with wind issues out.
|
|
By:
Owner says definitely the Arkle - probably means he'll be supplemented for the QMCC later this week! Interesting that he sees him as a King George horse one day.
|
|
By:
Sprinter Sacre now has an OR of 169 after 3 chases as a novice.
|
|
By:
He'd win the Grand Annual off the mark, LUMP ON
|
|
By:
*that mark, got too excited
|
|
By:
Moscow Flyer was only rated 170 after winning the 2003 QMCC.
|
|
By:
11/8 is a shocking price for a 169 rated novice, I mean that's terrible value there must be dozens of horses better than that entered, wouldn't back it with counterfeit after all it's a novice chase at Cheltenham and who knows if he will get up the hill, I mean he didn't in the Supreme Novice Hurdle 12 months ago now did
slow poke got no chance  |
|
By:
Dave Dickinson on Sprinter and the Game Spirit -
The Grade 2 Betfair Game Spirit Chase at Newbury on Friday was undoubtedly the highlight of the week in the 2m to 2m5f chase division, although there were a couple of other races that pushed it close, writes Mark Olley. It’s not often that you witness a novice treat older rivals with total contempt, especially in a Grade 2 contest, and in a new course record time, but that’s exactly what Sprinter Sacre did. Nicky Henderson’s hugely exciting novice never came off the bridle in beating stable-mate French Opera and gave me the same kind of tingle up the spine that Kauto Star did when winning the Lancashire Chase at Haydock back in 2006 prior to his first Gold Cup. French Opera won this race last season, along with a Grade 2 at Sandown, and also ran a creditable sixth in the Champion Chase. He’s just below the very top-class 2m chasers, but is a high-class 2-miler and seldom runs a poor race. I based the race around French Opera (162) and the third placed I’m So Lucky (150) – who received 10lb and was beaten just over two lengths by French Opera – and have them both running to their pre-race marks. This left me with the decision on what to call the facile six-length winning margin. In the end I settled on 12lb which puts Sprinter Sacre on a new mark of 169 and makes him the highest rated novice in years. This compares favourably with recent winners of the Game Spirit – French Opera was 164 in 2011, Master Minded was 173 in 2010 and 170 in 2008, while Well Chief was 169 in 2007 (the race was abandoned in 2009). It also puts Sprinter Sacre into second place in the 2m chase division, behind the 177-rated Sizing Europe. |
|
By:
the thing with 2 mile championship events is its not all about speed, its about stamina and getting up that hill after running 2 miles at a frantic pace, these races at any other course would seem like 2 and a half milers, i honestly dont think that SS will stay, the longer run in on the old course will find him out and set the race up for one of the battle hardened stayers, im personally on al ferof but will be topping up on a reverse forcast with peddlers cross.
with regards the game spirit there is no chance in hell that ISL or FO run to their respective career high marks. |
|
By:
@ alleged
your whole post is a guess I'm afraid you cannot know that SS won't stay or that the course will find him out and who are these battle hardened stayers of whom you speak? and why should ISL in particular not have run to his mark? He was race fit and is very consistent. I rated him to have run to 150, what mark have you rated him to? Oh, let me guess you haven't actually rated the race - it just suits your argument to say something like that |
|
By:
Nick Mordin's research this week,by coincidence, is about younger horses being suited by giant 2 mile oval tracks on the theory that the flat out pace raises the heart rate of older horses (8 and over) too much and they get very tired. If that is accurate, and his evidence is pretty compelling, then it would be surprising if the 10yo I'm So Lucky and 9yo seasonal debutant French Opera ran to their very best.
|
|
By:
Scratching made for 12
The remainder pay scratching deadline fee Age st lb Al Ferof (FR) (Mr J. Hales) Paul Nicholls.......................................................................... 7 11 7 Astracad (FR) (Mr H. R. Mould) Nigel Twiston-Davies ............................................. 6 11 7 Blackstairmountain (IRE) (Mrs S. Ricci) W. P. Mullins, Ireland.............................. 7 11 7 Bog Warrior (IRE) (Gigginstown House Stud) A. J. Martin, Ireland ..................... 8 11 7 Call The Police (IRE) (DD Racing Syndicate) W. P. Mullins, Ireland ..................... 9 11 7 Cristal Bonus (FR) (Mr R. J. H. Geffen) Paul Nicholls ............................................... 6 11 7 Cue Card (Mrs Jean R. Bishop) Colin Tizzard ................................................................ 6 11 7 Foildubh (IRE) (Mr John Patrick Ryan) John Patrick Ryan, Ireland ........................ 8 11 7 Kid Cassidy (IRE) (Mr John P. McManus) Nicky Henderson.................................... 6 11 7 Lucky William (IRE) (Garden Kingdom Syndicate) Thomas Cooper, Ireland ... 8 11 7 Menorah (IRE) (Mrs Diana L. Whateley) Philip Hobbs.............................................. 7 11 7 Nearest The Pin (IRE) (Sox Syndicate) A. J. Martin, Ireland.................................. 7 11 7 Peddlers Cross (IRE) (Mr T. G. Leslie) Donald McCain ........................................... 7 11 7 Sir des Champs (FR) (Gigginstown House Stud) W. P. Mullins, Ireland.............. 6 11 7 Sprinter Sacre (FR) (Mrs Caroline Mould) Nicky Henderson ............................... 6 11 7 |